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Re: Elizabethan menu?

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  • velvetclad
    First you ll have to scrounge up some lampreys, or eels if unavailable...(Sorry, just teasing, but I always wondered what a lamprey was. Apparently, if they
    Message 1 of 7 , May 3, 2007
      First you'll have to scrounge up some lampreys, or eels if
      unavailable...(Sorry, just teasing, but I always wondered what a
      lamprey was. Apparently, if they were "off" they could kill you!)
      I remember being surprised to hear that in Tudor and Elzabethian
      times a "salad" refered to cooked greens, not raw.
      According to one sourcebook I have on the court of Elizabeth (which
      I'll look for if you want), all persons of the court recieved a measure
      of Bread and beer for breakfast, and meat was not served until the mid
      day meal. Depending on ones place and rank, bread was either coarse and
      dark (servants) to lighter and softer on up the "totem pole". I will
      look up specifics on menus in my books, but it will be after this
      weekends events unless you say you need them NOW.
      Regards,
      Anna
    • Amy Heilveil
      ... Actually, eel is quite yummy. Bogdan did it once for a vigil and the vigilant s husband stood by the bowl and pretty much emptied it himself by not
      Message 2 of 7 , May 3, 2007
        On 5/3/07, velvetclad <velvetclad@...> wrote:
        > First you'll have to scrounge up some lampreys, or eels if
        > unavailable...(Sorry, just teasing, but I always wondered what a
        > lamprey was. Apparently, if they were "off" they could kill you!)

        Actually, eel is quite yummy. Bogdan did it once for a vigil and the
        vigilant's husband stood by the bowl and pretty much emptied it
        himself by not letting anyone else near it. He and I like eel
        whenever we can get it. There are several recipes for eel pie which
        would be delicious and correct.

        Are you looking for sources from which to glean your menus? for actual
        receipts or example menus?

        Smiles,
        Despina
      • Adele de Maisieres
        ... I concur. Eel is delicious. It s especially good barbecued or smoked. (I m not sure why people in N. America have such an unfriendly attitude to eel.
        Message 3 of 7 , May 3, 2007
          Amy Heilveil wrote:

          >>First you'll have to scrounge up some lampreys, or eels if
          >>unavailable...(Sorry, just teasing, but I always wondered what a
          >>lamprey was. Apparently, if they were "off" they could kill you!)
          >>
          >>
          >
          >Actually, eel is quite yummy. Bogdan did it once for a vigil and the
          >vigilant's husband stood by the bowl and pretty much emptied it
          >himself by not letting anyone else near it. He and I like eel
          >whenever we can get it. There are several recipes for eel pie which
          >would be delicious and correct.
          >
          >

          I concur. Eel is delicious. It's especially good barbecued or smoked.
          (I'm not sure why people in N. America have such an unfriendly attitude
          to eel. Most people here would conside smoked eel a treat.)

          --
          Adele de Maisieres

          -----------------------------
          Habeo metrum - musicamque,
          hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
          -Georgeus Gershwinus
          -----------------------------
        • borderlands15213
          ... (Sorry, just teasing, but I always wondered what a ... Oh, there are a number of seafood items which if off or improperly prepared can do you a great
          Message 4 of 7 , May 4, 2007
            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Amy Heilveil" <amyheilveil@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > On 5/3/07, velvetclad <velvetclad@...> wrote:
            ><<<snipped>>>
            (Sorry, just teasing, but I always wondered what a
            > > lamprey was. Apparently, if they were "off" they could kill you!)

            Oh, there are a number of seafood items which if "off" or improperly
            prepared can do you a great deal of harm.
            >
            > Actually, eel is quite yummy. <<<snipped>>>

            Indeed it is. There *used* to be a Chinese-Japanese restaurant a
            couple of miles from me which served unagi (eel) "sushi," with red roe
            (coral? No, probably a different roe than coral...) Lovely! I used
            to take a couple of generous plates of the stuff to an eel fancying
            friend for his birthday; he and I were the only two people I knew who
            cared for it at all---.
            That restaurant was totally in the wrong location: they went under
            about six months ago. Such disappointment!! :-(

            Yseult the Gentle, trying not to pout because she'd made sure there
            was *plenty* of eel for a little birthday mini-celebration and he
            didn't share!
          • Rebecca Riley
            If eel is so delicious, would someone mind recommending a source for it in the central US? I m willing to cook it if I can get it. (I m near Indianapolis, if
            Message 5 of 7 , May 7, 2007
              If eel is so delicious, would someone mind recommending a source for it in
              the central US? I'm willing to cook it if I can get it. (I'm near
              Indianapolis, if that helps)

              Given the recipe that grills it with fruit juice and ginger, I'm willing to
              eat it too...



              Al vostro servizio,
              Signora Giovanna d'Este

              Vert, on a billet Or three fleurs-de-lys, one and two, sable, a bordure
              dancetty Or.

              "Numquam Succumbe"

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            • Ii Saburou Katsumori (Joshua B.)
              ... I m looking at what I have. Unfortunately, I m not sure that I have any specifically Elizabethan menus that I could find, but there are some more broad
              Message 6 of 7 , May 7, 2007
                On 5/3/07, Anora Marchaunt (Christa ) <anorathepain@...> wrote:
                > I'm hoping for a little help, I'm trying to put together an example of
                > a typical daily menu and a feast day munu at court during Elizabeths
                > reign.....
                > Any ideas??
                > Anora

                I'm looking at what I have. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that I have
                any specifically 'Elizabethan' menus that I could find, but there are
                some more broad 'Tudor' menus. Hopefully these will help.

                From "The Tudor Kitchens", released by Hampton Court Palace, the
                following is a description of the dinner on an ordinary Monday and
                Wednesday for the Treasurer and Comptroller (this work focuses mainly
                on the time of Henry VIII):

                First Course:

                Bread (cheat and manchet): 10
                Ale: 4 gallons
                Wine: 3 pitchers
                Flesh for Potage-
                Beef: 1 mess
                Mutton: 1 mess
                Veal or capons: 2 messes
                Rabbit: 2 messes

                Second Course:
                Herons: 1 mess
                Cocks, plovers, pigeons: 1 mess
                Baked meate: 1 mess
                Fruit
                Butter

                It goes on to say "A course was more like a buffet meal than a modern
                course of one dish and only parts of it were fully eaten. The waste
                was passed down to the servants and their waste to the beggars at the
                gate. Waste was an important built in part of any royal meal. No-one
                could be expected to drink a gallon of ale (even though Tudor ale was
                very weak) and almost a flaggon of wine."

                The menu they used in the recreation at Hampton Court Palace at the
                time of the printing was:

                First Course:
                Cheat and manchet bread
                Beer and ale
                Wine
                Chines of beef with vinegar sauce (roast beef)
                Pestells of red deer (venison pies)
                Baked carp in wine with prunes
                Butter and eggs
                Wafers

                Second Course:
                Boiled Mutton
                Swan
                Cocks
                Roast boar with a pudding
                Cream of almonds
                Wafers
                Machpanes (marzipan)

                The small book further mentions that "both boiled meat and meat stock
                were essential parts of the Tudor diet".

                "The Tudor Kitchen Cookery Book" contains the following recipes and redactions:
                Roast Pork with raisin and rosemary stuffing (To roste a pig; British
                Library Sloane MS.234.b.fl7)
                Apple sauce for roast pork (Pigge sauce; A Proper New Booke of Cookery, 1575)
                Whole baked salmon with spices and prunes (Baked carp; The Good
                Housewife's Jewell, 1585)
                Lamb stew with chicken, quails and raisins (For to stewe mutto; A
                Proper New Booke of Cookery, 1575)
                Tudor bread sauce (A sauce for rosted rabbet; The Good Housewife's Jewell, 1585)
                Apple fritters (Fritters; The Good Housewives Treasure, 1588)
                Gooseberry tart with saffron pastry (Tart of gooseberries; A Proper
                New Booke of Cookery, 1575)
                Pears with spiced honey syrup (Wardens in Conserve; A Prper New Booke
                of Cookery, 1575)
                Gilded marzipan cake (Marchpane; The Treasurie of Commodious Conceits
                and Hidden Secrets, 1584)
                Hippocras (Ippocras; The Treasurie of Commodious Conceits and Hidden
                Secrets, 1584)

                "Shakespeare's Kitchen" mentions that "Feasts with fifty or more
                separate dishes were common for special events, but guests were not
                expected to try all fifty dishes. The assortment of dishes was
                presented so that each person could find something he or she liked.
                In 1617, Frayn Moryson, a travel writer, wrote of this English custom,
                'The English tables are not furnished with many dishes, all for one
                mans diet, but severaly for many mens appetite,...that each may take
                what hee likes."


                This might be an interesting source
                Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (1888--with excerpts from two
                manuscripts) http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=cme;idno=CookBk

                The books I have:

                "Tudor Cookery: Recipes & History"
                "Shakespeare's Kitchen: Renaissance Recipes for the Contemporary Cook"
                "The Tudor Kitchens Cookery Book"
                "The Tudor Kitchens"
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