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Looking for cookbooks

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  • Beth Lokey
    Does anyone know of any period Welsh or Viking cookbooks or recipes? I m trying to help someone out with some research. Thanks, Mina [Non-text portions of this
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 3, 2007
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      Does anyone know of any period Welsh or Viking cookbooks or recipes? I'm
      trying to help someone out with some research.



      Thanks,

      Mina





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Heather Rose Jones
      ... On the Welsh end, the only pre-1600 recipes -- in the formal sense -- that I ve run across were published in: Bowen, D. J. 1954. Y Gwasanaeth Bwrdd in
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 3, 2007
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        On Apr 3, 2007, at 6:58 AM, Beth Lokey wrote:

        > Does anyone know of any period Welsh or Viking cookbooks or
        > recipes? I'm
        > trying to help someone out with some research.

        On the Welsh end, the only pre-1600 recipes -- in the formal sense --
        that I've run across were published in:

        Bowen, D. J. 1954. "Y Gwasanaeth Bwrdd" in Bulletin of the Board of
        Celtic Studies. 15:116-120.

        It includes two fairly brief extracts from 16th c. manuscripts that
        are so similar in format, style, and content to contemporary recipes
        in English sources that I would be astounded if they weren't direct
        translations of some as yet unidentified (or more likely, lost)
        English source. Here's an example

        mortraws brawn y wnair val hyn/ cymer gapwld a chic pork a verwer yn
        �a ai temprio a llaeth almons/ a thrwy y isgell y hvn dod ef wrth y
        tan a dod yndo saffrwn a siwgr yna cymer laeth berwedic o�i ar y tan
        a dod gyda melyn wie a chymysc hwynt yn �a y gid a gwsnaytha allan.

        Mortrews of brawn are made so. One takes capon and pork
        and boils it well and temper it with almond milk and with its own
        sauce put it by the fire and put saffron thereto and sugar, then take
        boiled milk over the fire and add egg yolks and mix them well
        together and serve forth.

        (my translation)

        There is a commercial pamphlet entitled "Bwyd y Beirdd" also
        published in English as "Food of the Bards" which combines excerpts
        of medieval Welsh poetry that mention food or dining with medieval-
        style recipes. No source is given for the recipes and the style has
        clearly been somewhat modernized -- while the author of the pamphlet
        seems to have been very knowledgeable about medieval cookery, there's
        no evidence that the recipes are taken from medieval Welsh sources as
        opposed to being drawn from the general western European culinary
        tradition. (In other words, as a research source for period cookery
        -- much less for period Welsh cookery -- it's in the same category as
        books like Fabulous Feasts, although I'd rate it as better than that
        specific source.)

        This isn't to say that there isn't plenty of research material
        available on the topic of what people in period Wales ate -- it just
        takes more digging and interpolation than if you had a cookbook to hand.

        On the Viking end, the earliest culinary text from Scandinavia that
        I'm aware of is a 13th c. text -- but similarly to the 16th c. Welsh
        recipes discussed above, this is simply a copy of a culinary
        manuscript that was in broad circulation in Europe (in this case,
        specific counterparts in other regions have been identified). So not
        only is it later than the Viking era, there isn't anything
        particularly regional in the contents.

        When I was in Sweden I picked up a gorgeous little glossy cookbook
        entitled "Vikingars Gastabud" which is someone's speculative
        reconstruction of dishes that Viking-era people _might_ have eaten,
        based on ingredients known to have been available and other
        descriptions. (The book is illustrated using photos of re-enactors
        using museum-quality replica cookware and dishes.) But as with the
        Welsh "Food of the Bards", it's not a direct source and is relying on
        someone else's speculations and interpretations, so its usefulness
        for research purposes is small.

        Tangwystyl




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
        ... There are Scandinavian cookbooks from medieval times, but nothing written from Viking times. Thora s page is the best resource, she has an extensive
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 3, 2007
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          >Does anyone know of any period Welsh or Viking cookbooks or recipes? I'm
          >trying to help someone out with some research.
          >

          There are Scandinavian cookbooks from medieval times, but nothing
          written from Viking times.
          Thora's page is the best resource, she has an extensive bibliography
          http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/vikfood.html

          Some other links
          http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/food.shtml
          http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/daily_living/text/food_and_diet.htm
          http://www.darkagessociety.co.uk/9food.html
          http://www.viking.no/e/life/food/index.html
          http://www.ydalir.co.uk/crafts/cook.htm
          http://www.ydalir.co.uk/crafts/cook/recipes.htm
          http://www.housebarra.com/EP/ep07/05banquet.html
          http://www.regia.org/life/food.htm
          http://www.vikingsonline.org.uk/resources/articles/food.htm
          http://www.birkana.org.uk/cooking.htm
          http://www.geocities.com/ravensteadhousehold/rsnorsefood.htm
          http://www.sca.org.au/st_florians/university/library/articles-howtos/9-12C_Norse_Food_AR070604.htm
          http://www.silk.net/sirene/norse.htm A norse spice chest

          And my own site, of speculative recipes and menus that I have used
          cooking in a Viking age living history kitchen. Please note the word
          speculative, I don't maintain that these are period, they are best I
          could do without written documentation.
          http://www.geocities.com/ranvaig/medieval/kitchen.html

          I'm not aware of any period Welsh cookbooks, but that isn't my area
          of knowledge. Perhaps the English cookbooks will be useful.

          This is a useful list of online cookbooks.
          http://www.thousandeggs.com/cookbooks.html
          http://www.thousandeggs.com/cookbooks.html#DANISH - 1300's and later

          Ranvaig
        • Barbara
          Greetings Mina: I posted a copy of a 1616 Danish cookbook in the files section. It is fun just to read. Hope this helps. YIS Ylas Anasdoter of Lions Gate
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 4, 2007
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            Greetings Mina:

            I posted a copy of a 1616 Danish cookbook in the files section. It is fun just to read. Hope this helps.

            YIS
            Ylas Anasdoter of Lions Gate
          • Katherine Rowberd / Kirrily Robert
            ... What part of the 16th century is that from? You mention contemporary recipes in English sources but the combination of ingredients there isn t what I m
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 10, 2007
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              On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 08:08:23PM -0700, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
              > On the Welsh end, the only pre-1600 recipes -- in the formal sense --
              > that I've run across were published in:
              >
              > Bowen, D. J. 1954. "Y Gwasanaeth Bwrdd" in Bulletin of the Board of
              > Celtic Studies. 15:116-120.
              >
              > It includes two fairly brief extracts from 16th c. manuscripts that
              > are so similar in format, style, and content to contemporary recipes
              > in English sources that I would be astounded if they weren't direct
              > translations of some as yet unidentified (or more likely, lost)
              > English source. Here's an example
              >
              > mortraws brawn y wnair val hyn/ cymer gapwld a chic pork a verwer yn
              > ?a ai temprio a llaeth almons/ a thrwy y isgell y hvn dod ef wrth y
              > tan a dod yndo saffrwn a siwgr yna cymer laeth berwedic o?i ar y tan
              > a dod gyda melyn wie a chymysc hwynt yn ?a y gid a gwsnaytha allan.
              >
              > Mortrews of brawn are made so. One takes capon and pork
              > and boils it well and temper it with almond milk and with its own
              > sauce put it by the fire and put saffron thereto and sugar, then take
              > boiled milk over the fire and add egg yolks and mix them well
              > together and serve forth.

              What part of the 16th century is that from? You mention "contemporary
              recipes in English sources" but the combination of ingredients there
              isn't what I'm used to from 16th century English sources. Mind you,
              most of the ones I'm most familiar with are from the later part of the
              century. To my eyes, that recipe, with the almond milk and saffron,
              looks more medieval in style. But I guess it wouldn't be too surprising
              if the recipes were lagging behind a bit as they travelled west?

              K.

              --
              Katherine Rowberd (mka Kirrily Robert)
              katherine@...
              http://katrowberd.elizabethangeek.com/
            • Heather Rose Jones
              ... Both manuscripts are from mid-century -- but keep in mind that this is a date for the physical manuscript, not necessarily for the composition of the text.
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 11, 2007
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                On Apr 10, 2007, at 10:52 PM, Katherine Rowberd / Kirrily Robert wrote:

                > On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 08:08:23PM -0700, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
                >> On the Welsh end, the only pre-1600 recipes -- in the formal sense --
                >> that I've run across were published in:
                >>
                >> Bowen, D. J. 1954. "Y Gwasanaeth Bwrdd" in Bulletin of the Board of
                >> Celtic Studies. 15:116-120.
                >>
                >> It includes two fairly brief extracts from 16th c. manuscripts that
                >> are so similar in format, style, and content to contemporary recipes
                >> in English sources that I would be astounded if they weren't direct
                >> translations of some as yet unidentified (or more likely, lost)
                >> English source. Here's an example
                >>
                >> mortraws brawn y wnair val hyn/ cymer gapwld a chic pork a verwer yn
                >> ?a ai temprio a llaeth almons/ a thrwy y isgell y hvn dod ef wrth y
                >> tan a dod yndo saffrwn a siwgr yna cymer laeth berwedic o?i ar y tan
                >> a dod gyda melyn wie a chymysc hwynt yn ?a y gid a gwsnaytha allan.
                >>
                >> Mortrews of brawn are made so. One takes capon and pork
                >> and boils it well and temper it with almond milk and with its own
                >> sauce put it by the fire and put saffron thereto and sugar, then take
                >> boiled milk over the fire and add egg yolks and mix them well
                >> together and serve forth.
                >
                > What part of the 16th century is that from? You mention "contemporary
                > recipes in English sources" but the combination of ingredients there
                > isn't what I'm used to from 16th century English sources. Mind you,
                > most of the ones I'm most familiar with are from the later part of the
                > century. To my eyes, that recipe, with the almond milk and saffron,
                > looks more medieval in style. But I guess it wouldn't be too
                > surprising
                > if the recipes were lagging behind a bit as they travelled west?

                Both manuscripts are from mid-century -- but keep in mind that this
                is a date for the physical manuscript, not necessarily for the
                composition of the text.

                Tangwystyl
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