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Re: [Authentic_SCA] cornucopia ...

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  • Susan B. Farmer
    ... Yes. That s the greco-roman illustration. However, unless you know that s a cornucopia that she s holding, it s not obvious. The modern cornucopis
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 6, 2007
      Quoting John Groseclose <iain@...>:

      > At 3:34 AM +0000 3/7/07, Susan Farmer wrote:
      >> I know that the cornucopia is greco-roman -- what's the earliest
      >> depiction of the "modern" cornucopia? Does it occur within the SCA
      >> period? I'm not sure how to go about tracking something like this down.
      >>
      >> Thanks,
      >> jerusha
      >
      > I am unsure as to your meaning by "modern" cornucopia.
      >
      > As for historical, there is this:
      >
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Antoninianus_Claudius_II-RIC_0137.jpg
      >
      > I'm pretty sure that depiction meets "periodicity."
      >

      Yes. That's the greco-roman illustration. However, unless you know
      that's a cornucopia that she's holding, it's not obvious. The
      "modern" cornucopis
      http://growabrain.typepad.com/growabrain/cornucopia.gif
      is what I'm looking for ... After the greco-roman period, are there
      depictions of the cornucopia in period art? Or is it a motif that
      basically disappears until the Victorian Age?

      jerusha
      -----
      Susan Farmer
      sfarmer@...
      University of Tennessee
      Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
      http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
    • John Groseclose
      ... I m still just a little confused - is your definition of a modern cornucopia hinged on whether or not the horn is a woven basket? Iain -- Inter spem
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 6, 2007
        At 11:28 PM -0500 3/6/07, Susan B. Farmer wrote:

        >Yes. That's the greco-roman illustration. However, unless you know
        >that's a cornucopia that she's holding, it's not obvious. The
        >"modern" cornucopis
        >http://growabrain.typepad.com/growabrain/cornucopia.gif
        >is what I'm looking for ... After the greco-roman period, are there
        >depictions of the cornucopia in period art? Or is it a motif that
        >basically disappears until the Victorian Age?

        I'm still just a little confused - is your definition of a "modern"
        cornucopia hinged on whether or not the "horn" is a woven basket?

        Iain
        --
        Inter spem curamque, timores inter et iras
        Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum:
        Grata supervenient, quae non sperabitur hora.
        De inimico non loquaris sed cogites
        Spam Delenda Est
      • Susan B. Farmer
        ... In the illustration that you showed, fruit and/or vegetables were not evident -- all that I saw was the horn itself. I don t care what the horn is made
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 6, 2007
          Quoting John Groseclose <iain@...>:

          > At 11:28 PM -0500 3/6/07, Susan B. Farmer wrote:
          >
          >> Yes. That's the greco-roman illustration. However, unless you know
          >> that's a cornucopia that she's holding, it's not obvious. The
          >> "modern" cornucopis
          >> http://growabrain.typepad.com/growabrain/cornucopia.gif
          >> is what I'm looking for ... After the greco-roman period, are there
          >> depictions of the cornucopia in period art? Or is it a motif that
          >> basically disappears until the Victorian Age?
          >
          > I'm still just a little confused - is your definition of a "modern"
          > cornucopia hinged on whether or not the "horn" is a woven basket?

          In the illustration that you showed, fruit and/or vegetables were not
          evident -- all that I saw was the horn itself. I don't care what the
          horn is made out of -- I'm looking for period depictions of a
          cornucopia that is a horn/basket with an abundance of produce -- not
          just a horn.

          jerusha
          -----
          Susan Farmer
          sfarmer@...
          University of Tennessee
          Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
          http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
        • Susan B. Farmer
          ... regardless of my inability to express myself properly, are there post greco-roman depictions of the cornucopia in SCA period art? Are there any from the
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 6, 2007
            Quoting John Groseclose <iain@...>:

            > After the greco-roman period, are there
            >> depictions of the cornucopia in period art? Or is it a motif that
            >> basically disappears until the Victorian Age?
            >
            > I'm still just a little confused - is your definition of a "modern"
            > cornucopia hinged on whether or not the "horn" is a woven basket?
            >

            regardless of my inability to express myself properly, are there post
            greco-roman depictions of the cornucopia in SCA period art? Are there
            any from the 16th century? or the 12th century?

            jerusha
            -----
            Susan Farmer
            sfarmer@...
            University of Tennessee
            Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
            http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
          • John Groseclose
            ... Greek: http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Ploutos.html - as with many of the Greco-Roman depictions, the cornucopia contains wheat, not fruit or vegetables.
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 7, 2007
              At 11:59 PM -0500 3/6/07, Susan B. Farmer wrote:

              >In the illustration that you showed, fruit and/or vegetables were not
              >evident -- all that I saw was the horn itself. I don't care what the
              >horn is made out of -- I'm looking for period depictions of a
              >cornucopia that is a horn/basket with an abundance of produce -- not
              >just a horn.
              >
              >jerusha

              Greek: http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Ploutos.html - as with many of
              the Greco-Roman depictions, the cornucopia contains wheat, not fruit
              or vegetables.

              See also:
              http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/K14.5.html
              http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/K14.6.html
              http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Dionysos_Ariadne_BM_311.jpg
              http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Livia_statue.jpg

              Since my own field of study was Greco-Roman mythology for a bit, I've
              got more knowledge about that period and its artwork than the later
              periods (well, except for 12th-15th century Scotland and the North
              Atlantic area).

              However:

              http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/exhibits/rubens/exhibition/myth1detail.html
              - while slightly post-period, this would seem to indicate that the
              imagery of the cornucopia hadn't been entirely forgotten in the
              interim.

              http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=943 -
              1530, Dosso Dossi. So, the imagery of the cornucopia was definitely
              used in contemporary artworks of the time.

              Hope this helps.

              Iain
              --
              Inter spem curamque, timores inter et iras
              Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum:
              Grata supervenient, quae non sperabitur hora.
              De inimico non loquaris sed cogites
              Spam Delenda Est
            • Amy Heilveil
              I ve seen cornocopia in a fair number of 15th century through modern artwork. A fair number in Italian book of hours pages. Hope this is helpful. Let me know
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 7, 2007
                I've seen cornocopia in a fair number of 15th century through modern
                artwork. A fair number in Italian book of hours pages.

                Hope this is helpful. Let me know if you need scans and I'll go through a
                few of my books and send them to you off list.

                Smiles,
                Despina de la baby got up at 4:30am today... ugh.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lilinah
                ... Look into Renaissance Italy, as that was the time and place that revived of Greco-Roman imagery, philosophy, mythology, etc. (re-interpreted, of course) --
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 8, 2007
                  jerusha wrote:
                  >I know that the cornucopia is greco-roman -- what's the earliest
                  >depiction of the "modern" cornucopia? Does it occur within the SCA
                  >period? I'm not sure how to go about tracking something like this down.

                  Look into Renaissance Italy, as that was the time and place that
                  revived of Greco-Roman imagery, philosophy, mythology, etc.
                  (re-interpreted, of course)

                  --
                  Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                  the persona formerly known as Anahita
                • Susan B. Farmer
                  ... Thanks! jerusha ... Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 8, 2007
                    Quoting Lilinah <lilinah@...>:

                    > jerusha wrote:
                    >> I know that the cornucopia is greco-roman -- what's the earliest
                    >> depiction of the "modern" cornucopia? Does it occur within the SCA
                    >> period? I'm not sure how to go about tracking something like this down.
                    >
                    > Look into Renaissance Italy, as that was the time and place that
                    > revived of Greco-Roman imagery, philosophy, mythology, etc.
                    > (re-interpreted, of course)
                    >

                    Thanks!
                    jerusha
                    -----
                    Susan Farmer
                    sfarmer@...
                    University of Tennessee
                    Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
                    http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
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