Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

PSA: List etiquette reminder

Expand Messages
  • wodeford
    Greetings. I hope this morning finds you well. Authentic_SCA has 1427 members at this time and we re growing every week. I would like to take this opportunity
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 3, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Greetings. I hope this morning finds you well.

      Authentic_SCA has 1427 members at this time and we're growing every
      week. I would like to take this opportunity to remind our members new
      and old of what has been considered proper etiquette on this
      list for the past 5 years.

      This list presently has 4 hardworking moderators, dedicated to keeping
      your group free of spam and spammers. By keeping this list moderated,
      we catch them at the gate before you are ever aware of them.

      Decisions made on how your group is administered are not dictated by a
      single person. We do discuss how things should be done and there have
      been times one moderator was out-voted by others on a point of list
      etiquette. We do listen to your suggestions and ideas. Those of you
      who have been with us over the long haul may have noticed some changes
      in the way we've been handling Moderator Notes on edited posts, for
      example.

      Five years ago, this had less than 50 members. Our community has grown
      and that's a wonderful thing. The rules of the group were formed
      relatively early on and we feel they work well for keeping your group
      a civilized place to discuss our interests.

      HOW IT WORKS:
      When a person subscribes to the list, he/she is automatically put on
      moderated status. (This is how we catch those spammers.) Once a person
      posts a few times on items that are relevant to the group, he/she may
      be removed from moderated status. In an ideal environment, we would be
      be better able to keep track of who is posting and get people off
      moderated status a bit more quickly, but we have our attacks of real
      life just as you do - and you outnumber us significantly. On the other
      hand, this "flaw" allows us to catch the rare occasions when a member
      in good standing either top-posts with an entire digest dangling under
      their post, or posts a message as the subject line (both have happened
      more thanonce and been caught and chopped by moderators before the
      post went to the group).

      For our newer members and anyone who needs a reminder, these are THE
      RULES:

      1. Please delete the previous message before sending your message -
      in other words, DO NOT TOP-POST (which is posting your message on
      top of the previous post and sending it). This may have become
      a 'regular' practice on various formats over the years, but it is
      *not* an acceptable practice on this list. It's too easy to forget to
      edit the preceding post or posts with this habit and it's very hard on
      our members who receive their listmail in digest form. If you
      consistently top-post, you will be placed on moderated status and the
      moderators will edit your posts for you. That makes more work for
      moderators.

      2. It is perfectly acceptable to intersperse your comments with those
      in the post to which you are responding. If a paragraph of the post to
      which you are responding has nothing you wish to address, please
      delete it before sending your response.

      3. Members who join begin on moderated status and remain there until
      they have posted to the group on relevant topics at least three times.
      Ideally at that point, they will have their membership changed to
      unmoderated status. Please be patient. As mentioned above, we're
      outnumbered and we may not always be able to get to your post as soon
      as it hits the list. (Your patience is also requested for those times
      when Yahoogroups has server issues. Sometimes posts get held up and we
      have no control over it either.)

      4. Dialogue on this list is expected to be polite and respectful.
      Spirited intellectual debate is one thing, but keep it courteous.

      5. If a member of this list feels that a conversation is getting
      abusive or improper, please privately notify the moderators, who will
      review the conversation and privately email all parties involved as
      to decisions.

      6. Please sign your posts. As mentioned, there are over 1400 members
      at this writing. We don't know who you are and addressing you by your
      email address is rude and impersonal. If you don't have an SCA name
      yet, sign with your modern one.

      7. If posting an event announcement, please identify the kingdom and
      shire, as well as the modern location at the *beginning* of the post.
      Modern state (and where applicable, country) should be listed in the
      header of the announcement.
      Example: "Subject: Fargo, ND Event To End All Events 2/3/07."

      8. If the topic of your post has gone off on a tangent from what was
      originally being discussed, please change the subject line. Some time
      in the future somebody might want to search the group archives for
      information on indigo dyes and isn't going to know you posted about
      indigo dyes in a post titled "Felted Wool."
      Example: "Subject: Indigo Dyes (was Felted Wool)."

      Thank you for abiding by the rules of the list which make
      Authentic_SCA one of the most civilized and respectful corners of our
      electronic world. We appreciate your membership in our community and
      look forward to its continued growth.

      Questions? Comments? Feel free to email me or any of our other
      moderators.

      Cheers,
      Jehanne de Wodeford, West Kingdom
      Pacific Time Zone Moderator
    • Jennifer Nestojko
      Well, I just joined htis list, and for the sake of being polite and also identifying myself as legitimate I will introduce myself. There isn t a whole lot to
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 5, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Well, I just joined htis list, and for the sake of being polite and also
        identifying myself as legitimate I will introduce myself.

        There isn't a whole lot to say. I am from the West, been playing in the SCA
        since 1989, muck about with cooking, poetry, fighting, and chasing toddlers.
        I also enjoy research into concepts in the middle ages and am currently
        looking into things like the development of the concept of kingship, the
        body in medieval text and image, and disability in the middle ages. That
        probably is why people tend to think I am a bit odd, but perhaps not.

        I look forward to the discussions here and hope to join in on a few of them.

        Branwen Cryccthegn Deorcwuda



        "What are you playing at?"
        "Words, words: they're all we have to go on."
        "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead"
        film version
      • wodeford
        Greetings. I hope this evening finds you all well. Authentic_SCA has 1445 members at this time and we re growing every week. I would like to take this
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 20, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Greetings. I hope this evening finds you all well.

          Authentic_SCA has 1445 members at this time and we're growing every
          week. I would like to take this opportunity to remind our members new
          and old of what has been considered proper etiquette on this
          list for the past 5 years.

          This list presently has 4 hardworking moderators, dedicated to keeping
          your group free of spam and spammers. By keeping this list moderated,
          we catch them at the gate before you are ever aware of them.

          Decisions on how your group is administered are not dictated by a
          single person. We do discuss how things should be done and there have
          been times one moderator was out-voted by others on a point of list
          etiquette. We do listen to your suggestions and ideas. Those of you
          who have been with us over the long haul may have noticed some changes
          in the way we've been handling Moderator Notes on edited posts, for
          example.

          Five years ago, Authentic_SCA had less than 50 members. Our community
          has grown and that's a wonderful thing. The rules of the group were
          formed relatively early on and we feel they work well for keeping your
          group a civilized place to discuss our interests.

          HOW IT WORKS:
          When a person subscribes to the list, he/she is automatically put on
          moderated status. (This is how we catch those spammers.) Once a person
          posts a few times on items that are relevant to the group, he/she may
          be removed from moderated status. In an ideal environment, we would be
          be better able to keep track of who is posting and get people off
          moderated status a bit more quickly, but we have our attacks of real
          life just as you do - and you outnumber us significantly. On the other
          hand, this "flaw" allows us to catch the rare occasions when a member
          in good standing either top-posts with an entire digest dangling under
          their post, or posts a message as the subject line (both have happened
          more thanonce and been caught and chopped by moderators before the
          post went to the group).

          For our newer members and anyone who needs a reminder, these are THE
          RULES:

          1. Please delete the previous message before sending your message -
          in other words, DO NOT TOP-POST (which is posting your message on
          top of the previous post and sending it). This may have become
          a 'regular' practice on various formats over the years, but it is
          *not* an acceptable practice on this list. It's too easy to forget to
          edit the preceding post or posts with this habit and it's very hard on
          our members who receive their listmail in digest form. If you
          consistently top-post, you will be placed on moderated status and the
          moderators will edit your posts for you. That makes more work for
          moderators.

          2. It is perfectly acceptable to intersperse your comments with those
          in the post to which you are responding. If a paragraph of the post to
          which you are responding has nothing you wish to address, please
          delete it before sending your response.

          3. Members who join begin on moderated status and remain there until
          they have posted to the group on relevant topics at least three times.
          Ideally at that point, they will have their membership changed to
          unmoderated status. Please be patient. As mentioned above, we're
          outnumbered and we may not always be able to get to your post as soon
          as it hits the list. (Your patience is also requested for those times
          when Yahoogroups has server issues. Sometimes posts get held up and we
          have no control over it either.)

          4. Dialogue on this list is expected to be polite and respectful.
          Spirited intellectual debate is one thing, but keep it courteous.

          5. If a member of this list feels that a conversation is getting
          abusive or improper, please privately notify the moderators, who will
          review the conversation and privately email all parties involved as
          to decisions.

          6. Please sign your posts. As mentioned, there are over 1400 members
          at this writing. We don't know who you are and addressing you by your
          email address is rude and impersonal. If you don't have an SCA name
          yet, sign with your modern one.

          7. If posting an event announcement, please identify the kingdom and
          shire, as well as the modern location at the *beginning* of the post.
          Modern state (and where applicable, country) should be listed in the
          header of the announcement.
          Example: "Subject: Fargo, ND Event To End All Events 2/3/07."

          8. If the topic of your post has gone off on a tangent from what was
          originally being discussed, please change the subject line. Some time
          in the future somebody might want to search the group archives for
          information on indigo dyes and isn't going to know you posted about
          indigo dyes in a post titled "Felted Wool."
          Example: "Subject: Indigo Dyes (was Felted Wool)."

          Thank you for abiding by the rules of the list which make
          Authentic_SCA one of the most civilized and respectful corners of our
          electronic world. We appreciate your membership in our community and
          look forward to its continued growth.

          Questions? Comments? Feel free to email me or any of our other
          moderators.

          Cheers,
          Jehanne de Wodeford, West Kingdom
          Pacific Time Zone Moderator
        • Dan Crowther
          Top posting is perfectly acceptable especially considering that the moderators do it regularly and it relieves people from having to scroll to the bottom of
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 20, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Top posting is perfectly acceptable especially considering that the
            "moderators" do it regularly and it relieves people from having to
            scroll to the bottom of the post to read the reply.

            (BTW I followed the rules by deleting your posting and have signed my post.)

            Dan Crowther
            http://www.oakandacorn.com
            http://celticclans.oakandacorn.com
          • Dan Crowther
            Oh I forgot to add: If you have 1445 members maybe THEY need to decide what etiquette on the list is? Dan Crowther http://www.oakandacorn.com
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 20, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Oh I forgot to add:

              If you have 1445 members maybe THEY need to decide what "etiquette"
              on the list is?

              Dan Crowther

              http://www.oakandacorn.com
              http://celticclans.oakandacorn.com



              At 11:11 PM 3/20/2007, you wrote:
              >Authentic_SCA has 1445 members at this time and we're growing every
              >week.
            • Sandra Dodd
              -=-If you have 1445 members maybe THEY need to decide what etiquette on the list is?-=- It s easy to start a yahoo list but not as easy to keep one happy.
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 21, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                -=-If you have 1445 members maybe THEY need to decide what "etiquette"
                on the list is?-=-

                It's easy to start a yahoo list but not as easy to keep one happy.
                Each list owner (or group of owners) can and must decide how they
                want the list to run. Let them run it.

                Others on the list could start their own similar or different lists,
                or they can choose to stay or leave.

                Different lists have different tone and rules, just as different
                homes, SCA households, automobiles, clubs... Complaining about it is
                churlish.

                AElflaed of Duckford
                Outlands

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Amy Heilveil
                If you have 1445 members maybe THEY need to decide what etiquette ... Nice idea, but for once, I m not going to take the nice line here but, rather, tell it
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 21, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  If you have 1445 members maybe THEY need to decide what "etiquette"
                  > on the list is?



                  Nice idea, but for once, I'm not going to take the nice line here but,
                  rather, tell it like it is... .

                  The moderators put a lot of work into this list. A lot of people like it as
                  it is or it wouldn't have such a large membership nor would it be as active
                  as it is and has been for the last few years. To my personal knowledge,
                  only two people have ever quit this list due to the rules of this list. We
                  do take, and act on, suggestions when we decide that they are in the best
                  interest of the group as a whole (such as how we now add notes from
                  moderators to posts). However, some rules, such as no top-posting, no
                  trolling, no slamming others, being polite... those aren't going to change.
                  This means that if someone is on moderated status and they do something such
                  as top-posting, their post will be edited, have a note added asking not to
                  top-post, and then sent on to the list.

                  It's kind of like going to your grandmother's house. She has rules in her
                  house. Those rules don't change when you come over just because you don't
                  like them.

                  Smiles,
                  Despina de la Eastern Time Zone moderator


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • annikki@comcast.net
                  ... From: Dan Crowther ... Actually, it is not acceptable. This has been made clear. ... The moderators are not top posting when they
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 21, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    -------------- Original message ----------------------
                    From: Dan Crowther <gobae@...>
                    > Top posting is perfectly acceptable especially considering that the

                    Actually, it is not acceptable. This has been made clear.

                    > "moderators" do it regularly and it relieves people from having to

                    The moderators are not top posting when they add a note to the top of another person's post before it comes through to the list.

                    > scroll to the bottom of the post to read the reply.

                    Relieves people from having to scroll to the bottom? Excuse me? Refraining from top posting is NOT about simply scrolling to the bottom of a bunch of quoted text and putting a reply at the end. No one should have to scroll through much of anything if people are polite about interspersing responses. Think of a play, for example. The text of a play does NOT go:

                    FRIAR LAURENCE: There on the ground, with his own tears made drunk.
                    NURSE: O holy friar, O, tell me, holy friar, Where is my lady's lord, where's Romeo?

                    Instead, the lines are switched because the friar's response comes AFTER -- in response to -- nurse's question. This is why people insert their responses immediately after whatever text they are responding to, leaving enough of the original text to make sense of their response.

                    Adele
                  • Lilinah
                    ... It s not just about whether one s response precedes the post one is responding to. The moderators are not really top posting - they are reminding folks of
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 21, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dan Crowther wrote:
                      >Top posting is perfectly acceptable especially considering that the
                      >"moderators" do it regularly and it relieves people from having to
                      >scroll to the bottom of the post to read the reply.

                      It's not just about whether one's response precedes the post one is
                      responding to. The moderators are not really top posting - they are
                      reminding folks of the list rules - and rules keep things running
                      smoothly.

                      The primary concern is about posting one's message on top of another
                      without editing the previous post. This sort of top posting leads to
                      what i've seen on other lists - a single sentence message on top of
                      *eight* (or even more) complete posts - complete with footers, long
                      sig lines, previous quotes, etc.

                      Thus a tiny message can become *huge*.

                      Now, you may have a very high speed connection and mass loads of
                      storage space, but as the owner of some other lists, i know that
                      there are still people in the US who live in rural areas who can only
                      access by dial up and have to pay for every byte they download and
                      there are no other options in their area.

                      It is a *courtesy* to *everyone* not to clog up the list with
                      unedited top posting. And i thought that courtesy was part of what we
                      in the SCA try to personify.

                      --
                      Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                      the persona formerly known as Anahita
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.