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Another 'which edition' question

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  • TudorLdy@aol.com
    Kind friends, I would like to ask more learned heads than mine to recommend an edition of the Book of Common Prayer that would be suited to a English lady in
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 31, 2006
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      Kind friends,

      I would like to ask more learned heads than mine to recommend an
      edition of the Book of Common Prayer that would be suited to a English
      lady in the third quarter of the 16th Century.

      After spending most of my life utterly *un*interested in organized
      religion of any sort (13 years in Catholic schools), I now find it
      necessary to learn more about the faith of my persona in an attempt to
      understand her worldview. My personas' family and closest childhood
      companions were heavily Protestant/Calvinists (and that was the
      problem), so she is very heavily biased toward a rather austere sort of
      Protestantism. She would have witnessed the Marian persecutions at
      close hand, and be understandably wary of such things, even though they
      are (now) long past.

      I'd like to learn, for lack of a better word, the catechism of
      Protestantism of the time (There! I wasn't struck dead for using that
      phrase!), and obtain a suitable edition of the BCP to carry with my
      kit. (I give these thiings proper respect, they're not just props.)
      Also, if there is an edition of the Bible in print that most closely
      matches the first edition of the Bible in English, I would really
      appreciate that information as well.

      With thanks,

      Elizabeth Blackdane
      Ewell, Surrey
      being 1588 in our reckoning
      ________________________________________________________________________
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    • bex_1014
      ... English ... that ... props.) ... closely ... hi: An overview of the various editions of the Book of Common Prayer of the Anglican church is available at
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 2, 2007
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, TudorLdy@... wrote:
        >
        > Kind friends,
        >
        > I would like to ask more learned heads than mine to recommend an
        > edition of the Book of Common Prayer that would be suited to a
        English
        > lady in the third quarter of the 16th Century.
        >> I'd like to learn, for lack of a better word, the catechism of
        > Protestantism of the time (There! I wasn't struck dead for using
        that
        > phrase!), and obtain a suitable edition of the BCP to carry with my
        > kit. (I give these thiings proper respect, they're not just
        props.)
        > Also, if there is an edition of the Bible in print that most
        closely
        > matches the first edition of the Bible in English, I would really
        > appreciate that information as well.
        >
        > With thanks,
        >
        > Elizabeth Blackdane
        > Ewell, Surrey
        > being 1588 in our reckoning

        hi:
        An overview of the various editions of the Book of Common Prayer of
        the Anglican church is available at
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Common_Prayer
        From the dates you gave, the 1559 BCP would be the best for your
        persona.
        You can download it - in modern spelling, original, or Latin, along
        with relevant other texts, from this site:
        http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1559/BCP_1559.htm
        Other prayer books can be found at
        http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/
        To get a bound copy...
        Amazon has a reprint! Modern spelling and punctuation though.
        http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0813925177/bookofcommonprayA/
        or, http://tinyurl.com/ylbntv
        Other related books from Amazon are listed here:
        http://satucket.com/bcp/Other_BCPs.htm

        Hope this helps,
        Rebecca
      • bex_1014
        ... I just realised I didn t answer that bit. Brief history of English Bible translations: Various translations, mostly partial, and paraphrases were made into
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 4, 2007
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          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, TudorLdy@... wrote:
          >
          > Also, if there is an edition of the Bible in print that most closely
          > matches the first edition of the Bible in English, I would really
          > appreciate that information as well.
          >
          > With thanks,
          >
          > Elizabeth Blackdane
          > Ewell, Surrey
          > being 1588 in our reckoning
          >

          I just realised I didn't answer that bit.
          Brief history of English Bible translations:
          Various translations, mostly partial, and paraphrases were made into
          Old English, Saxon, Norman, etc.
          Wycliffe translated the Vulgate into Middle English in ~1384-ish
          No new English translations were widely available until Tyndale
          published his translation (from the Greek manuscripts) in 1525/1526.
          This was originally just the New Testament, and was revised a number of
          times, as he completed more of the Old. Printing technology enabled
          fast spread of this and subsequent translations.
          I assume you're interested in Tudor/Elizabethan Bibles (although there
          is a facsimile of Wycliffe's New Testament available for purchase, and
          the text of the entire Wycliffe Bible is online).

          Tyndales' Bible - 1525/26 - not complete, as Tyndale published as he
          translated.
          http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/tyndale/
          A highly expensive facsimile can be bought here:
          http://www.greatsite.com/facsimile-reproductions/tyndale-1536.html
          (as well as some other bible versions.)
          Or, a much more affordable version of Tyndale's New Testament is
          available from Amazon:
          http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Tyndale-Original-
          Spelling/dp/0712346643
          http://tinyurl.com/yltqdq
          (or search on amazon, there are a couple of different editions there).

          Coverdale's Bible - 1535 - published by Miles Coverdale, it was
          substantially Tyndale's translation, finished by his friends.

          The Matthew Tyndale Bible (1549) is also based on Tyndale's work, with
          some of Coverdale, and further work by Rogers.
          Facsimile edition:
          http://www.greatsite.com/facsimile-reproductions/matthew-1549.html

          In 1539, Henry VIII commissioned the "Great Bible" (so called because
          of its size), and had one placed in every church. It was published by
          Coverdale.

          English refugees from the reign of Mary went to Geneva and there
          produced the Geneva Bible (complete) in 1560. It was enormously popular
          in England, and would be a likely one for your persona. It was the
          first to be divided into chapters and verses for easy reference.
          A number of expensive versions are available:
          http://www.tollelegepress.com/gb/geneva.php
          http://www.greatsite.com/facsimile-reproductions/geneva-1560.html
          If you Google for Geneva Bible, a number of online versions are
          available.
          Unfortunately, a reasonably priced version seems to be difficult to
          find. Best I could find was Barnes and Noble - $200.
          http://tinyurl.com/y5a8cg

          In 1568, under Elizabeth, a revision of the Great Bible was published,
          known as the Bishop's Bible, which replaced the Great Bible in churches.

          A Catholic translation of the New Testament (from the Vulgate) was made
          in 1582, (Rheims New Testament) but the Old Testament was not finished
          until 1609 (Douay Old Testament). Douay-Rheims Bibles are widely
          available.

          The King James Version dates to 1611, and is widely available.

          A number of Online Translations are available at these sites:
          http://www.slts.edu/Current_Students/Online_Bibles.htm
          http://www.geocities.com/onlinebibletranslations/
          http://tinyurl.com/sk6q4

          Cheers,
          Rebecca
        • Sandra Dodd
          WOW. -=-The King James Version dates to 1611, and is widely available. A number of Online Translations are available at these sites:
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 4, 2007
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            WOW.

            -=-The King James Version dates to 1611, and is widely available.

            A number of Online Translations are available at these sites:
            http://www.slts.edu/Current_Students/Online_Bibles.htm
            http://www.geocities.com/onlinebibletranslations/
            http://tinyurl.com/sk6q4

            Cheers,
            Rebecca
            -=-

            Thank you, Rebecca, for that detailed run-down of what's when for
            whom in English-language Bibles. It was fun to read and I'm going to
            save it.

            One of the most fun things I've ever read is The Heliand--not
            originally in English, but an English translation of a Saxon version
            of the Gospels, paraphrased beyond paraphrase, translated from
            fisherman and shepherd references and analogies to theigns, earls,
            hill-forts, and Jesus' word-wise warrior companions (disciples).

            There's some history and excerpts there.

            Sandra

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jeff Gedney
            I am still hoping to get my hands on a Geneva edition (the Breeches Bible - ca 1533) But that is the exact edition Bible my persona would have carried, as a
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 4, 2007
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              I am still hoping to get my hands on a Geneva edition (the "Breeches Bible"
              - ca 1533)
              But that is the exact edition Bible my persona would have carried, as a
              goode Eastr Anglian (neo Puritan) Protestant.
              So I wants it, I waaants it! Preeeeecioussss!

              They are still in print, technically, but they are expensive since they are
              not printed in very large numbers.

              It is one of the earliest English versions widely printed and available in
              England.

              Capt Elias
            • Cynthia J Ley
              I found a facsimile of a portion of the Gutenburg at Powell s; think it ran around $45.00. Arlys
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 4, 2007
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                I found a facsimile of a portion of the Gutenburg at Powell's; think it
                ran around $45.00.

                Arlys
              • Jeff Gedney
                ... Not the Geneva edition from 1587, but the ealrier version from 1533. Da Capt
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 4, 2007
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                  > I am still hoping to get my hands on a Geneva edition (the
                  > "Breeches Bible"
                  > - ca 1533)

                  Not the Geneva edition from 1587, but the ealrier version from 1533.

                  Da Capt
                • Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
                  ... Bible ... as a ... I have a copy of the 1551 edition of a Catechism printed in Scotland. It is Catholic and printed in English, which appears to me to be
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 4, 2007
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                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Gedney" <gedney@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I am still hoping to get my hands on a Geneva edition (the "Breeches
                    Bible"
                    > - ca 1533)
                    > But that is the exact edition Bible my persona would have carried,
                    as a
                    > goode Eastr Anglian (neo Puritan) Protestant.
                    > So I wants it, I waaants it! Preeeeecioussss!

                    I have a copy of the 1551 edition of a Catechism printed in Scotland.
                    It is Catholic and printed in English, which appears to me to be quite
                    heretical for the time. It is fabulous though, has all the ceremonies,
                    prayers, etc. I downloaded it from EEBO, which is an unbelievably
                    fabulous resource if you have access to it. Most major universities
                    have an account and some large public libraries do too. Because I was
                    living in podunkville at the time, I talked my base library into
                    getting a trial subscription for a week and then feverishly downloaded
                    as much as I could. I got lots of the household receipt books from the
                    16th century, many of which I had never seen before.

                    It is a scan of the actual book (221 pgs) and I've been working on a
                    project to somehow reprint and bind it for myself, but that comes
                    under the heading of one of the 8,000 projects I have in my head that
                    I will get to eventually. Grin.

                    Toujours a vos ordres,
                    Margaret Hepburn
                  • bex_1014
                    ... I think you still have your dates mixed up - the Geneva (Breeches) Bible, the translation made by English refugees from the persecution under Mary, was
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 10, 2007
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                      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Gedney" <gedney@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I am still hoping to get my hands on a Geneva edition (the
                      > > "Breeches Bible"
                      > > - ca 1533)
                      >
                      > Not the Geneva edition from 1587, but the ealrier version from 1533.
                      >
                      > Da Capt
                      >

                      I think you still have your dates mixed up - the Geneva (Breeches)
                      Bible, the translation made by English refugees from the persecution
                      under Mary, was first published in 1560. 1533 sounds more like the
                      Coverdale bible.
                      Cheers,
                      Rebecca
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