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tudor gown - another question

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  • Kelley
    Does anyone know whether the gown bodice was attached to the overskirt? It looks like it to me in the pictures, but I m not certain. Thanks, Cate PS To
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 5, 2006
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      Does anyone know whether the gown bodice was attached to the
      overskirt? It looks like it to me in the pictures, but I'm not certain.
      Thanks,
      Cate

      PS To moderator - I'm sorry, but I don't know what top posting means.
      Can you explain it to me? Thanks.
    • wodeford
      MODERATOR NOTE. This is top posting. The reason we request that you do not top post is that it is very, VERY easy to forget to remove any part of the previous
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 5, 2006
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        MODERATOR NOTE. This is top posting. The reason we request that you do
        not top post is that it is very, VERY easy to forget to remove any
        part of the previous message, forcing everyone to read it over again.
        This is particularly a problem for our list members who receive their
        messages in digest form.

        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelley_rambo@...> wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone know whether the gown bodice was attached to the
        > overskirt? It looks like it to me in the pictures, but I'm not certain.
        > Thanks,
        > Cate
        >
        > PS To moderator - I'm sorry, but I don't know what top posting means.
        > Can you explain it to me? Thanks.
        >
      • wodeford
        MODERATOR NOTE APPEARS IN ALL CAPS IN BODY OF MESSAGE. ... THIS IS BOTTOM POSTING. IF YOU WILL COMPARE IT TO THE MESSAGE TITLED LIST ETTIQUETTE EXAMPLE #1
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 5, 2006
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          MODERATOR NOTE APPEARS IN ALL CAPS IN BODY OF MESSAGE.
          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelley_rambo@...> wrote:
          > PS To moderator - I'm sorry, but I don't know what top posting means.
          > Can you explain it to me? Thanks.

          THIS IS BOTTOM POSTING. IF YOU WILL COMPARE IT TO THE MESSAGE TITLED
          "LIST ETTIQUETTE EXAMPLE #1" YOU CAN SEE THAT I AM ANSWERING AT THE
          END OF CATE'S ORIGINAL MESSAGE. YOU CAN ALSO SEE THAT I SNIPPED OUT
          THE PORTION OF HER MESSAGE THAT DID NOT APPLY TO THE QUESTION.

          THIS IS A VERY ACTIVE LIST WITH MORE THAN 1000 MEMBERS. PLEASE BE
          COURTEOUS AND EDIT YOUR POSTS SO THAT EXTRANEOUS INFORMATION ISN'T
          REPEATED UNNECESSARILY.

          THANK YOU.
        • Chris Laning
          ... I think the best answer is sometimes. If I remember correctly, the evidence seems to say that some bodice-skirt combinations were tied together with
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 5, 2006
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            At 4:54 PM +0000 12/5/06, Cate wrote:
            >Does anyone know whether the gown bodice was attached to the
            >overskirt? It looks like it to me in the pictures, but I'm not certain.

            I think the best answer is "sometimes." If I remember correctly, the
            evidence seems to say that some bodice-skirt combinations were tied
            together with laces (like shoelaces, sort of) while others were
            actually sewn together. I would not be surprised to hear of
            attachment by hooks and eyes, either.

            For practical purposes, since the bodice should overlap and hide the
            skirt waistband anyway, attaching the bodice to the waistband has
            some real advantages. It prevents "dreaded gap-osis" where the
            underlayers show between bodice and skirt when you stretch or raise
            your arms. (They shouldn't show, except at neckline and cuffs --
            shirts were UNDERWEAR <g>). This is a major plus if you don't want to
            be worrying about your clothes while wearing them.

            On the other hand, it's much easier to make each piece separately --
            bodice in one piece, skirt with waistband, and sleeve pieces. It's
            also easier to clean the whole thing if you can take it apart (and
            believe me, I've done it), especially for women's clothes, since the
            skirts have LOTS of yardage in them. My own gowns have usually had
            the pieces made separately, then hand-sewed together with big
            stitches and heavy thread -- it's easy then to take out the stitching
            for washing, and re-do it later.
            --
            ____________________________________________________________

            O (Lady) Christian de Holacombe , Shire of Windy Meads
            + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
            http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
            ____________________________________________________________
          • wodeford
            ... There s some discussion of the pros and cons of attached vs. unattached tops and bottoms on historical clothing at the Reconstructing History list going on
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 5, 2006
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              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelley_rambo@...> wrote:
              >
              > Does anyone know whether the gown bodice was attached to the
              > overskirt? It looks like it to me in the pictures, but I'm not certain.
              > Thanks,
              > Cate

              There's some discussion of the pros and cons of attached vs.
              unattached tops and bottoms on historical clothing at the
              Reconstructing History list going on currently. You can join it here:
              http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructinghistory.com

              Cheers,
              Jehanne de Wodeford
              West Kingdom
            • Elizabeth Walpole
              ... certain. ... I think the vast weight of evidence points to yes, a lot of costumers use a waistband but I have not yet found any significant evidence to
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 5, 2006
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                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelley_rambo@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Does anyone know whether the gown bodice was attached to the
                > overskirt? It looks like it to me in the pictures, but I'm not
                certain.
                > Thanks,
                > Cate
                >
                I think the vast weight of evidence points to yes, a lot of
                costumers use a waistband but I have not yet found any significant
                evidence to suggest that gowns were made in two separate pieces`this
                article has a pretty good set of evidence against waistbands
                http://www.sempstress.org/techniques/waistbands.shtml
                The one issue I see with waistbands that isn't covered in that
                article is the problem of the bodice point. When people wear a
                pointed bodice with a split front skirt there is a mismatch between
                the point of the bodice and the point where the two sides of the
                skirt meet. In period portraits the two sides of the split skirt
                meet at the bottom of the bodice point but if you wear a skirt on a
                separate waistband the two edges of the split meet a couple of
                inches above the point so by the time it's level with the bottom of
                the bodice the gap is already a few inches wide. so instead of
                seeing this:
                \/
                /\
                which you see in period portraits, you see this:
                \/
                / \
                does that make sense?
                Elizabeth
                --------------------------------------------
                Elizabeth Walpole | Elizabeth Beaumont
                Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac
                http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/
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