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Late 15th Cent. outer seam finishes

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  • SCA - Isabella Peccetti
    Greetings good gentles. My name is Isabella Peccetti, and it is a pleasure to be a part of your group. I, unfortunately, come to you with a dilema. I have
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
      Greetings good gentles. My name is Isabella Peccetti, and it is a
      pleasure to be a part of your group. I, unfortunately, come to you with
      a dilema. I have already been through the message archive and links
      here and did not find what I was looking for.
      I have been searching for days to find information on stitches that may
      have been used to finish seams on garments during the late 15th
      century. Location is not of importance as my persona has traveled
      muchly. The dress I have made is of northern europian influence between
      the time of 1480 and 1490 and the painter in most of the artwork was
      Rogier van der Weyden (who was of dutch/flemish persuasion). So, if
      there is anyone who could offer me assistance in finding out which
      stitches were common in that time I would greatly appreciate it! I only
      need to finish the neck/underarm seems in order for the outer gown to
      be done, and I am about to start drafting the pattern for my under
      dress before I hand sew that too.
      My thanks for your time,
      Isabella
    • Maggie Forest
      Isabella, ... by finish , do you mean how to treat seam allowances? There s quite a bit of information on the seams of the Herjolfsnes garments, some of which
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
        Isabella,

        >I have been searching for days to find information on stitches that may
        >have been used to finish seams on garments during the late 15th
        >century.

        by 'finish', do you mean how to treat seam allowances? There's quite a
        bit of information on the seams of the Herjolfsnes garments, some of
        which match your time period. Also the golden gown in Uppsala is
        around mid-15th C.

        A lot will depend on the type of fabric you're working with. If it
        unravels, you need to finish edges very carefully, if it doesn't, you
        don't. That's pretty much what was done in period too.

        I myself do mid-late 14th C, but I tend to always stitch down my seam
        allowances. I either flat-fell them apart, or sew them to one
        side/oversew like the Herjolfsnes garments. Facings can be used on
        high-wear areas such as buttoned openings. I quite like the
        tablet-sewn look on wrist edges and even hems at times.

        /maggie
      • Terri Morgan
        This may help you: http://heatherrosejones.com/archaeologicalsewing/index.html It is a compilation of every type of seam that Dr. Jones could find... they do
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
          This may help you:
          http://heatherrosejones.com/archaeologicalsewing/index.html

          It is a compilation of every type of seam that Dr. Jones could find... they
          do not appear to be sorted by time period (which makes sense, since some of
          them are sure to cross over may periods/cultures) but I'm sure that if there
          is any 'one stop' research-source, this webpage would be it.


          Hrothny
        • SCA - Isabella Peccetti
          ... may ... Sorry, I should have been more precise. My brain hesitated with the proper wording. What I was refering to was more decorative stitches, like split
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
            > Isabella,
            >
            > >I have been searching for days to find information on stitches that
            may
            > >have been used to finish seams on garments during the late 15th
            > >century.
            >
            > by 'finish', do you mean how to treat seam allowances?

            Sorry, I should have been more precise. My brain hesitated with the
            proper wording. What I was refering to was more decorative stitches,
            like split stitch, chain stitch, a stem stitch... or other such things.
            Stitches that will be visible along the neck line and possibly hems and
            sleeve caps depending on how it ties the gown together.
            Thank you for the great response though! :D
            Isabella
          • SCA - Isabella Peccetti
            Ack! I forgot to mention that the dress is silk, and the skirt is lined with linen. Also, I was wondering if anyone has found a cheaper alternative than Silk
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
              Ack! I forgot to mention that the dress is silk, and the skirt is lined
              with linen.

              Also, I was wondering if anyone has found a cheaper alternative than
              Silk dupioni as a substitute for wool. I am so allergic that even
              holding that "100% italian" super fine stuff for 30 seconds had me
              clawing at my hands upon handing it to the next person.
              Isabella
            • Heather Rose Jones
              ... I wouldn t say that the article includes every type of seam I could find -- more like includes all the material in publications I happened to have lying
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
                On Sep 17, 2006, at 4:03 PM, Terri Morgan wrote:

                > This may help you:
                > http://heatherrosejones.com/archaeologicalsewing/index.html
                >
                > It is a compilation of every type of seam that Dr. Jones could
                > find... they
                > do not appear to be sorted by time period (which makes sense, since
                > some of
                > them are sure to cross over may periods/cultures) but I'm sure that
                > if there
                > is any 'one stop' research-source, this webpage would be it.

                I wouldn't say that the article includes every type of seam I could
                find -- more like "includes all the material in publications I
                happened to have lying around when I put the article together". I
                didn't make any particular push to get complete coveration in time
                and space and the later centuries aren't as well covered as the
                earlier for various practical reasons. But the current coverage of
                the article should be sufficient to get a general feel for what was
                being done.

                Tangwystyl
              • Heather Rose Jones
                ... As I noted in my previous post, my look at various seam types is a bit skimpy on the 15-16th c. material, but I don t recall seeing much in the way of
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
                  On Sep 17, 2006, at 4:28 PM, SCA - Isabella Peccetti wrote:

                  >> Isabella,
                  >>
                  >>> I have been searching for days to find information on stitches that
                  > may
                  >>> have been used to finish seams on garments during the late 15th
                  >>> century.
                  >>
                  >> by 'finish', do you mean how to treat seam allowances?
                  >
                  > Sorry, I should have been more precise. My brain hesitated with the
                  > proper wording. What I was refering to was more decorative stitches,
                  > like split stitch, chain stitch, a stem stitch... or other such
                  > things.
                  > Stitches that will be visible along the neck line and possibly hems
                  > and
                  > sleeve caps depending on how it ties the gown together.
                  > Thank you for the great response though! :D

                  As I noted in my previous post, my look at various seam types is a
                  bit skimpy on the 15-16th c. material, but I don't recall seeing much
                  in the way of "visible to be decorative" stitching at the time you
                  mention. Back in the 13-14th c. you got some things of this type,
                  such as the "cording" effect on some of the Herjolfsnes material, and
                  the sewn-on tablet woven edgings mentioned previously. But I don't
                  recall seeing any examples of that kind of stitching from the late
                  15th century.

                  Tangwystyl
                • lilinah@earthlink.net
                  ... How cheap are you looking for? I can find dupioni on sale on the web for about $10 or less per yard, especially when there s a sale. This is cheaper than
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 22, 2006
                    At 11:35 PM +0000 17/09/06, SCA - Isabella Peccetti wrote:
                    >Also, I was wondering if anyone has found a cheaper alternative than
                    >Silk dupioni as a substitute for wool. I am so allergic that even
                    >holding that "100% italian" super fine stuff for 30 seconds had me
                    >clawing at my hands upon handing it to the next person.

                    How cheap are you looking for?

                    I can find dupioni on sale on the web for about $10 or less per yard,
                    especially when there's a sale. This is cheaper than most wool -
                    although the same website sometimes has inexpensive wool, however
                    it's usually men's suiting and grey pinstripe just doesn't look right
                    for most SCA purposes.
                    http://www.fabric.com

                    Their "promotionally priced dupioni" is 54 inches wide and normally
                    $10.95 per yard, but can be several dollars less per yard when there
                    are sales - which is pretty often - and there is often an excellent
                    selection of colors when they first go on sale. Colors come and go
                    and they are not the same every time - sometimes there's a huge
                    selection - sometimes when all the good colors are gone, there's
                    nothing but shades of beige. So it's good to get on their mailing
                    list or hit the site weekly to see what's there. They often have
                    excellent linen, too.

                    There's nothing else i could suggest as a substitute for wool or
                    silk. Most of the other types of silks i know are more expensive than
                    the above-mentioned dupioni.

                    Silk noil is relatively inexpensive, but it is relatively narrow and
                    tends to shrink more than dupioni. Additionally it has a highly
                    textured surface and NO sheen, so it doesn't look like most silks
                    used for fine garments. I use it mundanely, but i've only used it as
                    lining for SCA garb.

                    Silk habotai, aka china silk, is generally too flimsy to replicate
                    the appearance of most SCA-period garments. I use it to line some of
                    my SCA garb. And when you get to the heavier weights that behave more
                    like a period silk, the price becomes close to dupioni. Finally,
                    since it's an even plain weave it doesn't have the sheen of dupioni,
                    although it is without those nubby slubs.

                    Linen, while of limited use in outer wear in much of Europe in
                    SCA-time frame, is a perfectly "period" fabric. Pure linen is a much
                    better insulator than cotton - leaving the wearer warmer in cool
                    weather and cooler in hot weather. Linen blends (with either cotton
                    or rayon) are generally not as good as pure linen. But we are limited
                    by what our bank accounts will allow, and what we can find.
                    http://www.fabric.com
                    and
                    http://www.fabrics-store.com
                    are two good sources of reasonably priced linen.

                    While you can find cotton or cotton-poly cheaper than the
                    above-mentioned dupioni or linen, these fabrics behave so unlike silk
                    or wool that i think it negatively effects the look of Medieval and
                    Renaissance garments (unless they were originally cotton - which is
                    rare in Europe). They tend to lack the appropriate body and drape. I
                    can certainly understand a beginner or someone on an extremely
                    limited budget using cotton, however. But if at all possible, go for
                    linen and silk.

                    --
                    Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                    the persona formerly known as Anahita
                  • azilisarmor
                    ... Coming into this late... Look at www.fashionfabricsclub.com for silk that looks and acts like wool. They frequently have silk tweeds, gabardines, etc,
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 25, 2006
                      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "SCA - Isabella Peccetti"
                      <cjvvz@...> wrote:
                      >

                      > Also, I was wondering if anyone has found a cheaper alternative than
                      > Silk dupioni as a substitute for wool. I am so allergic that even
                      > holding that "100% italian" super fine stuff for 30 seconds had me
                      > clawing at my hands upon handing it to the next person.


                      Coming into this late... Look at www.fashionfabricsclub.com for silk
                      that looks and acts like wool. They frequently have silk tweeds,
                      gabardines, etc, that can definitely pass for wool. And cheap.
                      Always a plus.

                      Deroch
                    • Cami Van Zanten
                      Thank you all so much for the advice and helpful tips! :D I finished the dress and it looks just like the one in the picture... and when I wore the under dress
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 26, 2006
                        Thank you all so much for the advice and helpful tips! :D I finished the dress and it looks just like the one in the picture... and when I wore the under dress under it I was good and warm. Investiture is coming up here in Tir Righ, and it will be just a little cold, so warmth is great. :D Now the trick is finding a good picture of a cloak from the same time frame... so I'm off hunting. ;)
                        Isabella


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