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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Elizabethan period jack coats?

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  • kittencat3@aol.com
    There s a great one in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York - it s a quilted fencing doublet. There s also this fascinating painting from Italy in the
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 31, 2006
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      There's a great one in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York - it's a
      quilted fencing doublet. There's also this fascinating painting from Italy in
      the 1550s:

      http://pintura.aut.org/SearchProducto?Produnum=27066

      Sarah Davies


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Peregrine (David McDowell)
      Greetings - I ve enjoyed lurking, listening, and hopefully learning for some time but this topic is extremely topical for me right now. I ve tried to oufit my
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 1, 2006
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        Greetings -

        I've enjoyed lurking, listening, and hopefully learning for some time but this topic is extremely topical for me right now.

        I've tried to oufit my personna with everything a 1595 Elizabethan (very minor) nobleman would need, and would like to carry this theme onto the battlefield for comat archery and crewing seige weapons.

        It would seem that a jack would suit my needs, but all I can find any agreement on is that it was a late period descendant of the brigandine and earlier than that the coat of plates. Other than that, all the text references seem to conflict e.g. it was always leather or always cloth, it was lined with plates or only layered cloth/batting, the attachments were externally visible rivets or twine lacing or only quilted type stitching, and it was buckled under the arms or across the shoulder or buttoned down the front. The first option in each case seems more like a brigandine and the later options seem more like padded garment (aketon? gambeson?) which seemed to be worn under heavier (plate or mail) armour.

        And I have not seen any illustrations other than an X-ray of a find of plates claimed to be from a jack. So I would very much appreciate:

        1. Any corrections on the above.

        2. Any guidance to illustrations, including the reference for the lattice stitching previously referenced

        3. Any names of authoritative texts covering this topic and period (so I could arrange an ILL if possible).

        4. Any leads on modern reconstruction - I'm trying to track down the Compleat Anachonist reference but would always like to learn what others have tried and accomplished.

        Thanks to the list for any assistance you can provide, and for the continuing illumination you provide on such varied aspects of authenticity.




        Peregrine Falconer, the Navigator
        (mka David McDowell)
        Barony of Borealis, Principality of Avacal, Kingdom of An Tir

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      • Tom Rettie
        ... There are a couple of nice examples in the Royal Armoury in Leeds, England. One is described thus: Jack of Plate English, about 1580-90 Formed of small
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 2, 2006
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          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Pete McKee" <p_mckee3@...> wrote:

          > Could anyone point me to one or more illustrations of late 16th
          > century jack coats? The only one I have is a side view with a detail
          > of the lattice stitching holding the jacks in place. It appears to be
          > made on a doublet pattern. I'd be interested to see a front view to
          > get an idea of the closure. Also does anyone have any thoughts on
          > whether or not the jacks were held in place with anything other than
          > the visible outer stitching? Seems to me that damage to that would
          > compromise the armour. Thanks.

          There are a couple of nice examples in the Royal Armoury in Leeds, England. One is
          described thus:

          Jack of Plate
          English, about 1580-90
          Formed of small iron plates sewn between layers of felt and canvas. It is unique in
          retaining its matching sleeves. Both the jack and the sleeves are styled according to
          contemporary civilian fashion.

          There is also a very cool "defensive hat":

          Defensive Hat
          English, about 1580-90
          Formed of small iron plates sewn between layers of canvas. It may originally have been
          covered over with a finer material to make it resemble an ordinary civilian hat.

          Contact me privately if you would like pictures.

          Regards,

          Tom R.
          tom at his dot com
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