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Faux Ermine and Faux Wool?

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  • Bookwyrm
    In fifteenth century England, sideless surcoats with fur tops seem to have been common; sideless surcoats without fur tops seem not to have been common. A
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 6, 2006
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      In fifteenth century England, sideless surcoats with fur tops seem to
      have been common; sideless surcoats without fur tops seem not to have
      been common. A fur-topped sideless surcoat seems, then, a reasonable
      top layer for a lady to wear.

      Fur is fairly expensive; the proper fur (ermine) even more so. Fake
      fur is not particularly cheap, itself, but is still cheaper than
      ermine and easier to clean and more durable than rabbit, which I am
      told was not used by the nobility, anyway. There are also "I don't
      particularly want to kill a bunch of animals in order to have
      something to wear" issue. I can sometimes overcome this by using
      thrift-store fur coats, where the animal was killed long before I took
      advantage of its pelt and my money is not going to the people who did
      the killing, at all, but since spotted ermine coats don't seem to be
      common today, the chance of finding one at the Salvation Army is
      vanishingly slim.

      So, faux fur. Plastic. If I'm not mistaken, faux fur is considered
      acceptable even in this, more authentic, environment. By using faux
      fur, especially on the top, one is losing benefits like breathability.
      Would is be unreasonable to conclude, then, that if one is using faux
      fur on a garment, one might as well take the money-saving step of also
      using faux wool for the skirt? Am I missing something important?

      Also, how do others ermine-spot their fur? Should I be tracing the
      heraldic-field ermine pattern onto the fur and using a fabric or
      permanent marker to colour the hairs? Should I be trying to patch
      black fur into the white fur? Should I get at least one ermine hide
      and try to tesselate it onto the fabric, and use the black spot from
      it to mark where I dye or sew the black?

      Am I missing something obvious? Were some of the bodices that look
      like ermine actually a patterned velvet? Would that be a reasonable
      thing to do?

      --
      Bookwyrm and Empath
      Ontario, Canada
    • Maggie Forest
      ... ermine fur is entirely white. The black spot is the tip of the tail, sewn into the joins of the small white furs. I have a hat with an ermine brim which
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 6, 2006
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        >Also, how do others ermine-spot their fur? Should I be tracing the
        >heraldic-field ermine pattern onto the fur and using a fabric or
        >permanent marker to colour the hairs? Should I be trying to patch
        >black fur into the white fur? Should I get at least one ermine hide
        >and try to tesselate it onto the fabric, and use the black spot from
        >it to mark where I dye or sew the black?

        ermine fur is entirely white. The black spot is the tip of the tail,
        sewn into the joins of the small white furs. I have a hat with an
        "ermine" brim which I have done from fake white fur, and then inserted
        actual ermine tails (antique, a gift). You could profitably fake this
        by taking rolled bits of black fur and similarly insert them, or
        perhaps little black tufts of some sort.

        /marienna
      • m d b
        Just swapping the test aroudna bit, it makes more sense for my answers:) ... I have yet to have to fake fur regardless of what it is in an SCA vontext as I
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 6, 2006
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          Just swapping the test aroudna bit, it makes more sense for my
          answers:)


          > Am I missing something obvious? Were some of the bodices that look
          > like ermine actually a patterned velvet? Would that be a reasonable
          > thing to do?

          I have yet to have to fake fur regardless of what it is in an SCA
          vontext as I have been fortunate and found a few exampels where a rich
          patterned silk (brocade or velvet) was used instead.

          So you may also have some luck (so as not to have to face this dilema)
          and spot some artwork that shows non fur as s well.


          > Also, how do others ermine-spot their fur? Should I be tracing the
          > heraldic-field ermine pattern onto the fur and using a fabric or
          > permanent marker to colour the hairs? Should I be trying to patch
          > black fur into the white fur? Should I get at least one ermine hide
          > and try to tesselate it onto the fabric, and use the black spot from
          > it to mark where I dye or sew the black?

          I have done some non SCA items which may help.

          I would buy as much white fur as needed and then a little extra to
          make the tails (which are indeed "dimentional" and not flat to the
          rest of the fur.)

          There are two ways to make the tails, either cut little arrow shaped
          pieces of the fur turn them inside out, sew, turn right side out to
          make a little tail, blacken with permanent markers on the ends (I'm
          not too sure how long the tails are, they are longer on the animal
          themselves I'm sure) and then gather the top edge and carefully sew
          into the flat fur so the ends are very hard to see.
          The other option is to cut the tail from a piece of black fur and sew
          it to a short bit of white fur. It depends on the actual fur you are
          using.

          I made a very small fur wrap for a doll with the marker method and it
          makes a great way to get a patterned fur because you can work the
          colour as deep into the pile as you like. I'm not sure how economical
          it would be though, adn it would be a bit more difficult to dry the
          ink.

          I have pieced fake fur before, but the thicker the backing the less
          elegant it is.

          Willemyne
          http://glittersweet.com
        • E McCoy
          MODERATOR EDIT OF TOP-POSTED MESSAGE. KINDLY EDIT YOUR POSTS AND DO NOT POST. THANK YOU. I would caution using permanent marker on garb. It has a tendency to
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 7, 2006
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            MODERATOR EDIT OF TOP-POSTED MESSAGE. KINDLY EDIT YOUR POSTS AND DO NOT POST. THANK YOU.

            I would caution using permanent marker on garb. It has a tendency to be not-so-permanent when liquid sunshine is vigorously applied.

            Hardwin Payn

            m d b <vcairistiona@...> wrote:

            > Also, how do others ermine-spot their fur?
          • m d b
            Hmm.. as written it sounds like I was the one who asked about
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 7, 2006
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              << MODERATOR EDIT OF TOP-POSTED MESSAGE. KINDLY EDIT YOUR POSTS AND
              DO NOT POST. THANK YOU. >>

              Hmm.. as written it sounds like I was the one who asked about
              spotting fur.... I would ask that everyone try to be careful when
              editing. I get a tad annoyed when things aren't attributed to me but
              ditto for when wrongly attributed to me;)

              << I would caution using permanent marker on garb. It has a tendency
              to be not-so-permanent when liquid sunshine is vigorously applied.>>


              Personally I have not yet had the experience on vigourously applying
              liquid sunshine (is this by the same makers as sunshine soap? That
              extremely pungent dishwashing soap in block form?) to fake fur. If
              nothing else the vigorous action is likely to frizz the fur (ditto
              for much fake hair that is also acrylic.) ;)

              However the advice is taken on board and a new series of experiments
              (cleaning) is under way. Acrylic paint I know first hand requires
              something beyond cleaning agents I can get my hands on when used to
              colour fur. I just have my doubts about how well it will make black
              spotted tails...

              willemyne
              http://costumes.glittersweet.com
              (the fur on the 1920s coat and the "Pink Diamonds" costume were both
              coloured with acrylic paint as was the hair piece for my Valois gown
              and 1870s black and gold ensemble. The paint on the hair has mostly
              washed out with a fair bit of cleaning and use of hot hot water but
              the fur is really not decolouring and I'm not likely to try too much
              more considering the frizz factor mentioned earlier in my post.)
            • Bookwyrm
              ... You frequently pour cod-liver oil on your garb? Or radium or radon-laced water? Or are you referring to something else? -- Bookwyrm and Empath Ontario,
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 7, 2006
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                On 07/08/06, E McCoy <gorilla_with_tie@...> wrote:
                > I would caution using permanent marker on garb. It has a
                > tendency to be not-so-permanent when liquid sunshine is
                > vigorously applied.

                You frequently pour cod-liver oil on your garb? Or radium or
                radon-laced water? Or are you referring to something else?

                --
                Bookwyrm and Empath
                Ontario, Canada
              • Catelli, Ann
                ... Liquid sunshine = RAIN Ann in CT where we call it rain
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 8, 2006
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                  > On 07/08/06, E McCoy <gorilla_with_tie@...> wrote:
                  > > I would caution using permanent marker on garb. It has a
                  > > tendency to be not-so-permanent when liquid sunshine is
                  > > vigorously applied.
                  >
                  > Bookwyrm and Empath

                  "Liquid sunshine" = RAIN

                  Ann in CT
                  where we call it rain
                • Lyle H. Gray
                  ... I think the reference was to rain... -- Lyle H. Gray gray@cs.umass.edu -- text only, please http://members.verizon.net/~vze3wwx7 -- Shared knowledge is
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 8, 2006
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                    On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, Bookwyrm wrote:

                    > On 07/08/06, E McCoy <gorilla_with_tie@...> wrote:
                    > > I would caution using permanent marker on garb. It has a
                    > > tendency to be not-so-permanent when liquid sunshine is
                    > > vigorously applied.
                    >
                    > You frequently pour cod-liver oil on your garb? Or radium or
                    > radon-laced water? Or are you referring to something else?

                    I think the reference was to rain...


                    --
                    Lyle H. Gray
                    gray@... -- text only, please
                    http://members.verizon.net/~vze3wwx7
                    --
                    Shared knowledge is preserved knowledge.
                  • zookni
                    ... I have seen permanent marker, sharpie, ect run with the application of very little water. And knowing that at events one often sees a great deal of gravity
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 8, 2006
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                      "Lyle H. Gray" <gray@...> wrote:
                      > I think the reference was to rain...


                      I have seen permanent marker, sharpie, ect run with the application of
                      very little water. And knowing that at events one often sees a great
                      deal of gravity bound airborne water....

                      Hardwin Payn
                      in the Pacific Northwest, site of the Temperate Rainforest
                    • m d b
                      ... of ... Maybe I was lucky with the brand and type of fur? No idea, but it s lasted a decade without running and we are in a very humid climate here;)
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 9, 2006
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                        > I have seen permanent marker, sharpie, ect run with the application
                        of
                        > very little water. And knowing that at events one often sees a great
                        > deal of gravity bound airborne water....

                        Maybe I was lucky with the brand and type of fur? No idea, but it's
                        lasted a decade without running and we are in a very humid climate
                        here;) Admittedly I haven't left the fur or the figure out in the
                        rain. My cat managed to lick of off some cheapo orange marker that
                        someone drew on him... Definitely not a marker to recommend then.

                        So, for the original poster to be safe, purchase black fur and make
                        the tails all from that.;)

                        I know I've heard of references to faking various luxury items (jewels
                        mostly and foods) but I do seem to recall reading about faking
                        different kinds of fur out of others. Just to get it into a
                        different kind of discussion.

                        Willemyne
                        http://glittersweet.com
                      • silkwarp
                        MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE SIGN ALL POSTS TO THIS LIST THANK YOU Hi, I ll add my 2c worth. Ive been making mascot suits out of faux fur for 15 years. The best way
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 15, 2006
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                          MODERATOR NOTE:
                          PLEASE SIGN ALL POSTS TO THIS LIST
                          THANK YOU

                          Hi, I'll add my 2c worth.
                          Ive been making mascot suits out of faux fur for 15 years. The best
                          way to simulate ermine is to choose silky, good quality fur in both
                          black and white. Manufacture your 'tips' out of the black and stitch
                          them into your white one by one. Its not that slow and looks soooo
                          much better. I
                          generally snip the pile where the spot or tip is going to be placed
                          down to the backing cloth so that the black is nicely embedded in the
                          pile. You can cheat and use a mini glue gun, but this involves both
                          practice and on occaisions pain - should you get it wrong the natural
                          instinct is to try to pull it off with your fingers!
                          Real fur is still the best though....
                        • silkwarp
                          ... So sorry, no offence intended, I m just not to up to speed with lists and postings I ll keep my 2c worth to myself in future - Anne Ginders
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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                            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "silkwarp" <service@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > MODERATOR NOTE:
                            > PLEASE SIGN ALL POSTS TO THIS LIST
                            > THANK YOU

                            So sorry, no offence intended, I'm just not to up to speed with lists
                            and postings
                            I'll keep my 2c worth to myself in future -
                            Anne Ginders
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