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ISO: Image of Pavilion with Upstairs

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  • Susan B. Farmer
    Sometime in the last 2 or 3 years, I found on the web a photo of a pavilion with a loft. I *think* that the bed was upstairs, but I m not certain. Anyway,
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 29, 2006
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      Sometime in the last 2 or 3 years, I found on the web a photo of a
      pavilion with a loft. I *think* that the bed was upstairs, but I'm not
      certain.

      Anyway, I've been looking for it again, and I don't seem to find it.
      Does this ring a bell with anybody? I've asked over at Medieval
      Encampments as well.

      thanks,
      jerusha
      -----
      Susan Farmer
      sfarmer@...
      University of Tennessee
      Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
      http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
    • Folo Watkins
      ... I had been hoping that someone answered this because I was very interested. Some years ago, while working on a book of period tentage, I found references
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 30, 2006
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        >Sometime in the last 2 or 3 years, I found on the web a photo of a
        >pavilion with a loft. I *think* that the bed was upstairs, but I'm not
        >certain.
        >
        >Anyway, I've been looking for it again, and I don't seem to find it.
        >Does this ring a bell with anybody? I've asked over at Medieval
        >Encampments as well.

        I had been hoping that someone answered this because I was very interested.
        Some years ago, while working on a book of period tentage, I found
        references to tents with wooden panels and windows. I had thought it was in
        Tuchman, _A Past Mirror,_ but can't find it; it as in the days before ready
        access via the www in any case. Whatever the source, it did not
        specifically note a second floor, especially one strong enough to support a
        bed.

        I am, right now, caught up in preparing for Pennsic, but this is certainly
        a subject that will attract my attention when I recover!

        Cheers, Folo
      • Cynthia J Ley
        ... I think you mean _A Distant Mirror_. ... Arlys
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 30, 2006
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          > I had been hoping that someone answered this because I was very
          > interested.
          > Some years ago, while working on a book of period tentage, I found
          > references to tents with wooden panels and windows. I had thought it
          > was in
          > Tuchman, _A Past Mirror,_ but can't find it; it as in the days
          > before ready
          > access via the www in any case. Whatever the source, it did not
          > specifically note a second floor, especially one strong enough to
          > support a
          > bed.

          I think you mean _A Distant Mirror_.

          > Cheers, Folo

          Arlys
        • Folo Watkins
          ... Duh, yes. It s over a hundred here today, and my brain is boiling? :) (And I had the book right before me...) Cheers, Folo
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 30, 2006
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            >I think you mean _A Distant Mirror_.

            Duh, yes. It's over a hundred here today, and my brain is boiling? :)

            (And I had the book right before me...)

            Cheers, Folo
          • borderlands15213
            Yes, sort of, and not exactly. I recall this article: http://www.currentmiddleages.org/tents/dormer.htm ...and that Medieval Miscellanea (with which I have no
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 30, 2006
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              Yes, sort of, and not exactly.
              I recall this article:
              http://www.currentmiddleages.org/tents/dormer.htm
              ...and that Medieval Miscellanea (with which I have no official
              connection, and that mention oughtn't be construed as an advertisement
              nor yet as an endorsement) used to advertise a honking big pavilion of
              theirs with a loft inside, and they are currently advertising, through
              their website, at least one two-storey pavilion/structure with a
              wooden floor for the second storey.
              www.medievalmiscellanea.com

              I also know that on another list someone had suggested that this
              sounds like the Historic Enterprises "booth" at Pennsic; or, it could
              be they have such a pavilion for sale.

              Yseult the Gentle

              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Susan B. Farmer" <sfarmer@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Sometime in the last 2 or 3 years, I found on the web a photo of a
              > pavilion with a loft. I *think* that the bed was upstairs, but I'm
              not
              > certain.
              >
              > Anyway, I've been looking for it again, and I don't seem to find it.
              > Does this ring a bell with anybody? I've asked over at Medieval
              > Encampments as well.
              >
              > thanks,
              > jerusha
            • Susan B. Farmer
              ... There is a picture in Il Libro Del Sarto of a tent with what looks to be windows. I was looking at Simone Martini s painting with the tents -- and can t
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 30, 2006
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                Quoting Cynthia J Ley <cley@...>:

                >> I had been hoping that someone answered this because I was very
                >> interested.
                >> Some years ago, while working on a book of period tentage, I found
                >> references to tents with wooden panels and windows. I had thought it
                >> was in
                >> Tuchman, _A Past Mirror,_ but can't find it; it as in the days
                >> before ready
                >> access via the www in any case. Whatever the source, it did not
                >> specifically note a second floor, especially one strong enough to
                >> support a
                >> bed.

                There is a picture in Il Libro Del Sarto of a tent with what looks to be
                windows. I was looking at Simone Martini's painting with the tents --
                and can't tell if those are windows or shields painted on the roof.

                http://www.wga.hu/art/s/simone/5foglian/foglian1.jpg

                jerusha
                -----
                Susan Farmer
                sfarmer@...
                University of Tennessee
                Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
                http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
              • GEOFF SCHEMELL
                ... Here is a closer look at the pavilions that I found on the website. From this view those definately look like shields.
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 30, 2006
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                  >There is a picture in Il Libro Del Sarto of a tent with what looks to be
                  >windows. I was looking at Simone Martini's painting with the tents --
                  >and can't tell if those are windows or shields painted on the roof.

                  Here is a closer look at the pavilions that I found on the website. From this view those definately look like shields.

                  http://www.wga.hu/art/s/simone/5foglian/foglian5.jpg

                  What I find to be really interesting in this picture are all of the triangular huts seemingly thatched with straw. Apart from the serious fire hazard this would prevent, it sure would make for a really cool encampment. Has anyone tried this as a reproduction?

                  -- Geoffrey Fulredy
                  Your friendly neighborhood charlatan.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Michael Hurley
                  MODERATOR NOTE - PLEASE SIGN YOUR POSTS. ... If you look here, you can clearly see that they are shields. http://www.wga.hu/art/s/simone/5foglian/foglian5.jpg
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 30, 2006
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                    MODERATOR NOTE - PLEASE SIGN YOUR POSTS.

                    At 10:12 PM -0400 on 7/30/06, Susan B. Farmer wrote:

                    >There is a picture in Il Libro Del Sarto of a tent with what looks to be
                    >windows. I was looking at Simone Martini's painting with the tents --
                    >and can't tell if those are windows or shields painted on the roof.

                    If you look here, you can clearly see that they are shields.

                    http://www.wga.hu/art/s/simone/5foglian/foglian5.jpg

                    There is a pavilion which shows up several times in the Chronicles of
                    Froissart in the section describing the tournament at Saint Inglevert
                    which has multiple dormered windows in the roof. Of course, this
                    could just be artist's licence.

                    http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary/controller/subjectidsearch?id=7771&startid=34396&width=4&height=2&idx=2
                    --

                    Auf wiedersehen!

                    ______________________________________________________
                    "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."

                    "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
                    of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
                    women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

                    "..No."

                    "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"

                    -Real Genius
                  • arhylda
                    ... It might also be an artists interpretation of animal skins used for the smaller triangular tents... Maria A.S. (back to lurking)
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 31, 2006
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                      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, GEOFF SCHEMELL <gschemel@...> wrote:
                      >.hu/art/s/simone/5foglian/foglian5.jpg
                      >
                      > What I find to be really interesting in this picture are all of the triangular huts seemingly thatched with straw. Apart from the serious fire hazard this would prevent, it sure would make for a really cool encampment. Has anyone tried this as a reproduction?
                      >
                      > -- Geoffrey Fulredy


                      It might also be an artists interpretation of animal skins used for the smaller triangular
                      tents...

                      Maria A.S. (back to lurking)
                    • gedney@OPTONLINE.NET
                      ... I think that this is definitely NOT animal skin. Looks like a kind of crude reed thatching that is fairly commonly taught in soem of those Back to the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jul 31, 2006
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                        > It might also be an artists interpretation of animal skins used
                        > for the smaller triangular
                        > tents...
                        >

                        I think that this is definitely NOT animal skin. Looks like a kind of
                        crude reed thatching that is fairly commonly taught in soem of those
                        Back to the earth survival courses.. (CF "Tom Brown's Field Guide to
                        Living with the Earth").

                        My opinion on this is based on the lines of thatch that appear horizontally
                        on the a-frames.

                        What the basic construction as I see it is, is to build the a frame by lashing
                        poles together and then lash in a grid of horizontal and vertical supports
                        made of sticks.
                        Then take your green reeds and in bundles about a handful, bend the bottom
                        ( rootwise) third double over the horizontal members and tie them in place.
                        work each course from the bottom and overlap. you can even use twisted
                        leaves from the reeds to tie off the bundles and save your cordage.
                        voila a quick shelter that a couple of industrious people can set up in a
                        few hours that will last a few days, and withstand most weather and is
                        easily repaired when severe weather happens to tear out a few reeds.

                        Asd for fire hazard. it's not bad as long as the reeds are green and fresh.

                        Capt Elias
                        Dragonship Haven, East


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                      • Peri
                        MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE SIGN ALL POSTS TO THIS LIST THANK YOU I found a company that sells them (www.r-zs.de/en/tent_systems/pstart.htm), so it clearly can be
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jul 31, 2006
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                          MODERATOR NOTE:
                          PLEASE SIGN ALL POSTS TO THIS LIST
                          THANK YOU

                          I found a company that sells them

                          (www.r-zs.de/en/tent_systems/pstart.htm),

                          so it clearly can be done. There was a photo of an encampment from a
                          past Pennsic that also was 2-storey, with bedrooms above, though
                          theirs appeared to be more of a scaffolding with wood exterior than a
                          pavilion ... rather an Italianate design with courtyard (darned
                          attractive, too!).
                        • lilinah@earthlink.net
                          ... There are a number of tents in paintings have ventilation flaps in their roofs , although i wouldn t count these as windows, even though they may look
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jul 31, 2006
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                            >Cynthia J Ley <cley@...> wrote:
                            > >> I had been hoping that someone answered this because I was very
                            >>> interested.
                            >>> Some years ago, while working on a book of period tentage, I found
                            >>> references to tents with wooden panels and windows. I had thought it
                            > >> was in Tuchman, _A [Distant] Mirror,_ but can't find it; it as in the
                            > >> days before ready access via the www in any case. Whatever the
                            > >> source, it did not specifically note a second floor, especially one
                            > >> strong enough to support a bed.

                            There are a number of tents in paintings have ventilation flaps in
                            their "roofs", although i wouldn't count these as windows, even
                            though they may look like "dormers".

                            16th and 17th century Ottoman tents have windows, but not of wood.
                            They have screen-like fabric coverings, with somewhat larger flaps on
                            the outside that can be dropped to keep out bad weather.

                            The only "tents" i can think of that DO have wooden doors and windows
                            are Mongolian yurts/gers.
                            --
                            Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                            the persona formerly known as Anahita
                          • tasha_medvedeva
                            ... {snip} ... My ger has a wooden door (which will soon sport a thumb latch -- not period, but will keep the door shut, yay!), but I m at a loss as to how one
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jul 31, 2006
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                              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, lilinah@... wrote:
                              >
                              {snip}
                              >
                              > The only "tents" i can think of that DO have wooden doors and windows
                              > are Mongolian yurts/gers.
                              > --
                              > Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                              > the persona formerly known as Anahita
                              >

                              My ger has a wooden door (which will soon sport a thumb latch -- not
                              period, but will keep the door shut, yay!), but I'm at a loss as to
                              how one would put a window in and maintain structural integrity,
                              unless the window has a ground-to-rafter support, as if it were a
                              second door frame.

                              Tasha
                            • GEOFF SCHEMELL
                              Just saw another news article about some of the recent Bog finds in Ireland. Now I finally have a reason to paint my nails... :-)
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                Just saw another news article about some of the recent Bog finds in Ireland. Now I finally have a reason to paint my nails... :-)

                                http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060801/od_nm/ireland_bogbodies_dc;_ylt=AsYcRM7KEYe5HRv1SRcuNg8Z.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3NW1oMDRpBHNlYwM3NTc-

                                Sorry for the really long URL. Sometimes I really despise Yahoo!

                                -- Geoffrey Fulredy




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • tasha_medvedeva
                                ... Ireland. Now I finally have a reason to paint my nails... :-) ...
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, GEOFF SCHEMELL <gschemel@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Just saw another news article about some of the recent Bog finds in
                                  Ireland. Now I finally have a reason to paint my nails... :-)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060801/od_nm/ireland_bogbodies_dc;_ylt=AsYcRM7KEYe5HRv1SRcuNg8Z.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3NW1oMDRpBHNlYwM3NTc-

                                  >
                                  > Sorry for the really long URL. Sometimes I really despise Yahoo!
                                  >
                                  > -- Geoffrey Fulredy
                                  >

                                  http://tinyurl.com/mx9a4

                                  www.tinyurl.com is a blessing upon us all.

                                  Tasha
                                • Amelia Boysen
                                  ... it d be interesting to find out what they used to do their nails. the article doesn t really say. anyone feel like digging? -- Amelia Boysen Walgreens -
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                    >Now I finally have a reason to paint my nails... :-)

                                    it'd be interesting to find out what they used to do their nails. the
                                    article doesn't really say. anyone feel like digging?

                                    --
                                    Amelia Boysen
                                    Walgreens - Beauty Advisor and Hallmark Representative
                                    Compas Arts Work - Senior Jewelry Apprentice
                                    Wizards Wax Works - Wax Technician
                                    Freelance Costumer


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
                                    ... http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/36026174.html Has a picture of his hands. . Manicured doesn t necessarily mean painted.
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                      > >Now I finally have a reason to paint my nails... :-)
                                      >
                                      >it'd be interesting to find out what they used to do their nails. the
                                      >article doesn't really say. anyone feel like digging?

                                      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/36026174.html
                                      Has a picture of his hands. . Manicured doesn't necessarily mean painted.

                                      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3304_bog.html
                                      "Oldcroghan's nails show no signs of wear and tear. This suggests
                                      that he might have been an individual of high status and didn't
                                      perform any manual labor. Curiously, finely manicured fingernails,
                                      styled hair, and a good diet are a commonly occurring feature among
                                      other European Iron Age bog bodies."

                                      Ranvaig
                                    • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
                                      ... http://www.stonepages.com/news/archives/001690.html Carbon testing, for example, showed that Clonycavan man died between 392- 201 BCE and Oldcroghan man
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                        > > >Now I finally have a reason to paint my nails... :-)
                                        >>
                                        >>it'd be interesting to find out what they used to do their nails. the
                                        > >article doesn't really say. anyone feel like digging?

                                        http://www.stonepages.com/news/archives/001690.html

                                        Carbon testing, for example, showed that Clonycavan man died between
                                        392- 201 BCE and Oldcroghan man from 362-175 BCE. One of these
                                        experts is Don Brothwell, the York University archaeologist who led
                                        the scientific investigation of Lindow Man, the bog body found in
                                        Cheshire (England) in 1984.

                                        So a bit early for most SCA reenactment.

                                        Ranvaig
                                      • Jessica
                                        I don t know what they used to paint their nails, probably berry juice or something like that, but there are references to fingernail painting in period
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Aug 1, 2006
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                                          I don't know what they used to paint their nails, probably berry juice or
                                          something like that, but there are references to fingernail painting in
                                          period literature - specifically scarlet! Lisa Bitel refers to it in her
                                          book "Land of Women: Tales of Sex and Gender in Early Ireland". If someone
                                          could come up with the original source, that would be great!



                                          Findabhair


                                          "it'd be interesting to find out what they used to do their nails. the
                                          article doesn't really say. anyone feel like digging?"



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