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one good job deserves another -- Query re: scrips?

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  • msgilliandurham
    You folks here were so helpful in my search for primary documentation for Elizabethan partlets, I ve got another question for you -- does anyone here know of
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 24, 2006
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      You folks here were so helpful in my search for primary documentation
      for Elizabethan partlets, I've got another question for you --

      does anyone here know of any documentation on the use of over-the-
      shoulder bags, (aka scipts) preferably canvas, by anyone but beggers,
      the ocassional shepherd, and people on pilgrimages?

      I was under the impression that they were common and that everyone used
      them, but now that I'm trying to document that impression, I'm not
      finding anything about the use of these except by the people mentioned
      above. And if there is any mention of the material from which they are
      made, they are always leather (not sure what a begger is doing with a
      good leather bag, but anyway...)

      Gillian [who spent the afternoon in the stacks at Vanderbilt, to no
      avail] Durham
    • heather jones
      ... I would expand your people on pilgrimages to travelers but otherwise this was also my impression when I was surveying various bag styles in the context
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 25, 2006
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        On Jun 24, 2006, at 6:03 PM, msgilliandurham wrote:

        >
        > You folks here were so helpful in my search for primary documentation
        > for Elizabethan partlets, I've got another question for you --
        >
        > does anyone here know of any documentation on the use of over-the-
        > shoulder bags, (aka scipts) preferably canvas, by anyone but beggers,
        > the ocassional shepherd, and people on pilgrimages?
        >

        I would expand your "people on pilgrimages" to "travelers" but
        otherwise this was also my impression when I was surveying various bag
        styles in the context of my shepherds purse research. (Note, for
        example, that the holy family on the flight to Egypt are sometimes seen
        carrying the scrip type of bag.)

        Tangwystyl
        --
        !! Computer crash lost recent e-mail -- please contact if I owe you
        mail !!
        heather.jones@...
        heatherrosejones.com
        lj:hrj
      • m_mc_nealy@yahoo.com
        Reply posted below ... From: msgilliandurham To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 9:03:10 PM Subject:
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 27, 2006
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          Reply posted below


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: msgilliandurham <msgilliandurham@...>
          To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 9:03:10 PM
          Subject: [Authentic_SCA] one good job deserves another -- Query re: scrips?



          <snipped>
          does anyone here know of any documentation on the use of over-the-
          shoulder bags, (aka scipts) preferably canvas, by anyone but beggers,
          the ocassional shepherd, and people on pilgrimages?

          I was under the impression that they were common and that everyone used
          them, but now that I'm trying to document that impression, I'm not
          finding anything about the use of these except by the people mentioned
          above. And if there is any mention of the material from which they are
          made, they are always leather (not sure what a begger is doing with a
          good leather bag, but anyway...)

          Gillian [who spent the afternoon in the stacks at Vanderbilt, to no
          avail] Durham.


          IMy focus is late 15th to end of 16th century Germanic lands, so adjust this to fit your persona....

          I too have seen very VERY few period examples of people carrying around large sacks over their shoulders, mainly people have a purse, sometimes a rather large one, on their belts. Often times you will see peasents with a cloth sack slung over their shoulder on the way to market, or with a basket in hand. Women also carried baskets to do their shopping.
          There is, however, an extant linen schulsack, a school sack, dated the second half of the 16th century. This is documented in "Alpirsbach, zur geschichte von Kloster und Stadt", ISBN 3-8062-1336-4 Published 2001; Textil-und Lederfunde by Ilse Fingerlin. Its in two volumes that come together when you order them via ILL, the second volume with the textile and leather findings is what you want.

          Its made of a rectangle of natural colored linen, fairly coarsely woven stuff, that has been folded over and sewn at the sides. The top has a 4 cm deep fold of fabric that has been sewn down. From the artwork they show, and another extant example, it appears that it would have had dowels sewn into the top pockets to give it a bit more structure. The straps are missing on both of the extant examples, but there are torn spots on the top that are set in 5-6 cms The finished size is 36 cm wide by 28 cm tall.

          The article shows school boys and soliders with this sack slung over their shoulders, but nobody else.

          So in summary for late 15th through 16th century Germany, lots of belt purses and baskets seen in use. Over the shoulder bags seen in use by soliders and school children.

          -Marion
          www.curiousfrau.com

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        • Chris Laning
          I don t know how good this is, not having seen it, but I thought this was intriguing. I ll be interested in reviews if anyone acquires a copy. ... --
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 27, 2006
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            I don't know how good this is, not having seen it, but I thought this
            was intriguing. I'll be interested in reviews if anyone acquires a
            copy.

            >Viking Clothing
            >Thor Ewing
            >£17.99 Tempus Publishing Ltd 2006
            >ISBN 0-7524-3587-6
            >www.historicalarts.co.uk/books/vikingclothing.html
            >
            >As it says on the back cover:
            > Contrary to popular myth the Vikings had a reputation for neatness and
            >their fashions were copied far beyond the realms of Scandinavia. Those who
            >could afford to displayed a love of fine clothes made from silks, from
            >lightweight worsteds in subtly woven twills, and from the finest of linens.
            >They wore short hair and their beards were carefully trimmed.
            > This accessible new book is the first to tackle the question of what
            >the Vikings wore, drawing on evidence from art and archaeology, literature
            >and linguistics to arrive at a fresh understanding of the nature of Viking
            >clothing, covering rich and poor, men and women across Scandinavia. It
            >includes an overview of Viking textiles and dyeing, and an exploration of
            >cloth production and clothing in the context of Viking society as a whole,
            >as well as a detailed consideration of both male and female outfits and a
            >new interpretation of the suspended dress. It also brings new evidence to
            >bear, suggesting that the Germanic and Viking pit house was primarily
            >designed for textile production.
            >
            >http://www.historicalarts.co.uk/books/vikingclothing.html
            --
            ____________________________________________________________

            O Chris Laning <claning@...> - Davis, California
            + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
            ____________________________________________________________
          • Terri Morgan
            ... Mine came yesterday... he s got some interesting theories (so far, I m only in the women s garb section). His assertion that linen was worn as an outer
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 28, 2006
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              > I don't know how good this is, not having seen
              > it, but I thought this was intriguing. I'll be
              > interested in reviews if anyone acquires a copy.
              >> Viking Clothing by Thor Ewing

              Mine came yesterday... he's got some interesting theories (so far, I'm only
              in the 'women's garb' section). His assertion that linen was worn as an
              outer garment by high-class Viking-era women was a surprise but not an
              unhappy one - at least, not this close to Pennsic!

              Until his book came out, I had not noticed that the extant early Viking
              clothing for men featured tunics without the gores - he believes that the
              use of them came about by cross-pollination with the Christian (southern)
              cultures.

              That's all that comes to mind as I sit here with the book in a different
              room. I did appreciate his Geijer/Hagg/Other Folks brief history of clothing
              studies.


              Hrothny
            • NINacide@aol.com
              I ordered the book today. That and a gambeson for my first suit of armor...but I won t get into that (::fake caugh sound effect:: varangian/viking ...
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 29, 2006
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                I ordered the book today. That and a gambeson for my first suit of
                armor...but I won't get into that (::fake caugh sound effect:: varangian/viking
                ::cough cough::).


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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