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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Dog Collars and Medieval Buckles

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  • Jane Stockton
    ... Isn t Google great: http://www.leeds-castle.com/content/visiting_the_castle/dog_collar_museum/dog_collar_museum.html Cheers, Jane ... Jane Stockton -
    Message 1 of 24 , May 31, 2006
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      At 02:48 PM 1/06/2006, you wrote:
      >If I wanted to do a super-authentic dog collar (which I do), I would
      >do a ton of research (which I have, and still almost-am, though I'm
      >out of leads and anything from here on in is serendipity) and try to
      >match materials as much as possible.

      Isn't Google great:
      http://www.leeds-castle.com/content/visiting_the_castle/dog_collar_museum/dog_collar_museum.html

      Cheers,
      Jane


      ------------------------------------
      Jane Stockton - jane_stockton@...
      Barony of Mordenvale, Kingdom of Lochac

      In Prayse of the Needle - http://needleprayse.webcon.net.au/ (personal website)
      Historical Needlework Resources - http://medieval.webcon.net.au/
      (resource website)
      The Needles' Excellency - http://laren.blogspot.com/ (blog)
    • Tiffany Brown
      ... Have you seen this? Dog collar (no closures) from 12th C ireland. http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do?page_id=2858 Just in case it was one
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 1 12:25 AM
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        On 6/1/06, Bookwyrm <bookwyrm.com@...> wrote:
        > If I wanted to do a super-authentic dog collar (which I do), I would
        > do a ton of research (which I have, and still almost-am, though I'm
        > out of leads and anything from here on in is serendipity) and try to
        > match materials as much as possible.

        Have you seen this?
        Dog collar (no closures) from 12th C ireland.
        http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do?page_id=2858

        Just in case it was one that you'd missed.

        Teffania
      • Bookwyrm
        ... I had missed that! Thank you ever so much for the link! -- Bookwyrm and Empath Ontario, Canada
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 1 1:49 AM
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          On 01/06/06, Tiffany Brown <teffania@...> wrote:
          > Have you seen this?
          > Dog collar (no closures) from 12th C ireland.
          > http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do?page_id=2858

          I had missed that! Thank you ever so much for the link!

          --
          Bookwyrm and Empath
          Ontario, Canada
        • Benjamin Cooper
          Bookwyrm, I have a few photographs of the dog collar from saxony 1608-1611 that is sitting in the Met. I took on my last trip to New York city. There is a
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 1 5:22 AM
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            Bookwyrm,
            I have a few photographs of the dog collar from saxony 1608-1611 that is sitting in the Met. I took on my last trip to New York city. There is a detail of the buckles. If you want copies let me know and I will email them to you.

            Ian Muir




            ---------------------------------
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          • Heather Rose Jones
            ... Gorgeous! (And the sort of thing you wouldn t come up with if we didn t have the surviving example.) I d hesitate to conclude that the original had _no_
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 1 6:09 AM
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              On Jun 1, 2006, at 12:25 AM, Tiffany Brown wrote:

              > On 6/1/06, Bookwyrm <bookwyrm.com@...> wrote:
              >> If I wanted to do a super-authentic dog collar (which I do), I would
              >> do a ton of research (which I have, and still almost-am, though I'm
              >> out of leads and anything from here on in is serendipity) and try to
              >> match materials as much as possible.
              >
              > Have you seen this?
              > Dog collar (no closures) from 12th C ireland.
              > http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do?page_id=2858

              Gorgeous! (And the sort of thing you wouldn't come up with if we
              didn't have the surviving example.) I'd hesitate to conclude that
              the original had _no_ closures -- simply that any closures were
              distinct from this decorative metalwork. The description suggests
              that it was originally attached to a fabric backing -- to which,
              presumably, any closure or buckle would have been attached.

              Tangwystyl

              --
              Heather Rose Jones
              check out the Surviving Garments Database! <http://
              heatherrosejones.com/survivinggarments/>
              heather.jones@...
              http://www.heatherrosejones.com
              LJ:hrj
            • Tiffany Brown
              ... Sorry, I should stop using shorthand. Indeed - no closures remaining on the article, likely lost over the years. There is some funny shaping at the back,
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 1 8:48 AM
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                On 6/1/06, Heather Rose Jones <heather.jones@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Jun 1, 2006, at 12:25 AM, Tiffany Brown wrote:
                > > http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do?page_id=2858
                >
                > Gorgeous! (And the sort of thing you wouldn't come up with if we
                > didn't have the surviving example.) I'd hesitate to conclude that
                > the original had _no_ closures -- simply that any closures were
                > distinct from this decorative metalwork. The description suggests
                > that it was originally attached to a fabric backing -- to which,
                > presumably, any closure or buckle would have been attached.

                Sorry, I should stop using shorthand. Indeed - no closures remaining
                on the article, likely lost over the years. There is some funny
                shaping at the back, that I expect was part of a closure (could be a
                buckle?), but I doubt we'd be able to tell what kind until we saw an
                example of the kind to compare it to. So no help for solving that
                riddle.

                Also - knowing the 12th C asthetic somewhat, and since this looks like
                the collar of someone with some money - I wouldn't be surprised if
                gems (cheap fake or moderately priced) were sewn to the backing
                material in the gaps. I very much doubt the backing material would be
                the velvet that the article says, as velvets were still pretty rare at
                this stage. Some other cloth (perhaps a silk twill - harder wearing
                and still very oppulent, or something cheaper) or even a woven backing
                (eg tabletweaving) seems more likely, as does a sturdy leather which
                could be further decorated.


                teffania
                "I'm not obsessed with the 12th Century, honest :-)"
              • Bookwyrm
                ... A bit far for me to go. The curator was quite helpful by e-mail, however. Unfortunately, none of the over-the-top collars described in the literature.
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 1 10:28 AM
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                  On 01/06/06, Jane Stockton <jane_stockton@...> wrote:
                  > http://www.leeds-castle.com/content/visiting_the_castle/dog_collar_museum/dog_collar_museum.html

                  A bit far for me to go. The curator was quite helpful by e-mail,
                  however. Unfortunately, none of the over-the-top collars described in
                  the literature.

                  On 18/07/05, Andrew Wells <andrewwells@...> wrote:
                  > The Leeds Castle collection, which goes back to the 16th century, has no
                  > collars made of the fine materials you mention.
                  . . .
                  > Collars which have survived from these early days are usually of brass or
                  > iron though some of the more substantial leather collars still exist. Most
                  > collars through the centuries have been lined with leather, of which only a
                  > trace or nothing remains.
                  >
                  > A delicate collar such as that you mention is unlikely to have survived so
                  > it is difficult to be sure of its construction. Given the almost universal
                  > use of leather as the material nearest the dog's coat, I believe that 'your'
                  > collar would probably have been based on a leather strap. A lighter
                  > material would have been capable of being tied too tight, and pulling when
                  > the lead was stretched. I suppose hemp is a possibility, but I think less
                  > likely in a household which could afford leather, and there is a possibility
                  > of hemp chafing.

                  Nothing solid, but good logic.

                  --
                  Bookwyrm and Empath
                  Ontario, Canada
                • m d b
                  ... castle.com/content/visiting_the_castle/dog_collar_museum/dog_collar_mu seum.html ... in ... I went in 1997, and can remember being intrigued by the wide
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 1 4:56 PM
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                    > On 01/06/06, Jane Stockton <jane_stockton@...> wrote:
                    > > http://www.leeds-
                    castle.com/content/visiting_the_castle/dog_collar_museum/dog_collar_mu
                    seum.html
                    >
                    > A bit far for me to go. The curator was quite helpful by e-mail,
                    > however. Unfortunately, none of the over-the-top collars described
                    in
                    > the literature.

                    I went in 1997, and can remember being intrigued by the wide variety,
                    and there were spikes everywhere! I seriously doubted at the time
                    that some were in fact for use on real dogs;)

                    I don't know if I have any photos, I'll have a look and let you know
                    if I have any of interest. I know I changed films in the room, and
                    probably took at least one inside.

                    Here are some photos someone else took:
                    http://albums.laurenstravels.com/leeds-castle-grounds?page=5
                    http://community.webshots.com/album/60822265tbGuWX

                    I can't recall which ones I saw then were pre 1600, but I suspect
                    most of the photos shown above an't, but I'm sure there are more
                    photo galleries out there.

                    Leeds Castle really is lovely, and next time I get to England I will
                    be going, but not with a tour group;) I did a bus about day trip and
                    nearly got left at Canterbury Cathedral... I lost track of time and
                    got back just as the bus was pulling out at the top of the town...

                    Willemyne,
                    http://glittersweet.com
                  • d_archambeaux
                    ... are surviving finds from the middle ages. ... buckles to ... I have made a pair of pulling harnesses for my shepards to draw a small wagon, 6 ounce
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 2 7:08 AM
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                      --- Bookwyrm <bookwyrm.com@...> wrote:
                      > If I wanted to do a super-authentic dog collar (which I do),
                      > Obviously, the most authentic medieval buckles would be ones that
                      are surviving finds from the middle ages.
                      > Would it be safe to trust a pair of small-ish centuries-old
                      buckles to
                      > continue to hold in use today, or do I go hunting for the best
                      > possible reproductions?

                      I have made a pair of pulling harnesses for my shepards to draw a
                      small wagon, 6 ounce leather well oiled, and padded at the collar.

                      For hardware, no don't risk a genuine artifact. I've been collecting
                      artifacts, from knives to horse tack, and I'd hate to see a
                      surviving piece be subjected to a lunging pulling dog.

                      Try to find a modern Feed and Tack store in your area. They'll
                      carry a wide variety of hardware for repairing horse saddles and
                      harness work. If you've got your medieval design in mind, you'll
                      find many odd shaped pieces that can be made to serve and be
                      reasonably authentic. For example, I've got a 12th cen. Snaffel Bit.
                      It is virtually identical to the modern item.

                      If the hardware is strong enough to hold a horse,
                      it'll manage any dog.


                      > Would those be cast, or forged?

                      Forged. for heavy duty items castings would be unlikely.

                      > On the last image, you can see what I take to be writing. Would
                      >it be > minimally intrusive to use a similar font to write "Service
                      Dog" on > the collar in modern English, in order to make the marking

                      Any form of marking you deem necessary is going to be acceptable.
                      This goes to the medical necessity threads that have been beaten to
                      death on the list. If the markings have got to be balze orange
                      with refelctive lettering, so be it.

                      My dogs in harness, were assumed to be "service animals" at Great
                      Western War. It really did suprise me, their harnesses are designed
                      for work, and the dogs while behavied enough to go to events, aren't
                      nearly well behavied enough to be service animals.

                      When marking your collar, keep in mind what can be scratched off
                      when the dog decides there is an itch under the new collar.
                      Mine removed alot of heraldic painting that I had done on the
                      harnesses.


                      Good Luck,
                      Ercule d'Archambeaux

                      Caid
                    • Andrea Hughett
                      ... I really don t want this read as a criticism, but I am interested in this as a philosophical point. In period, one would use a new buckle, not a
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jun 2 8:28 AM
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                        > --- Bookwyrm <bookwyrm.com@...> wrote:
                        > > If I wanted to do a super-authentic dog collar
                        > (which I do),
                        > > Obviously, the most authentic medieval buckles
                        > would be ones that
                        > are surviving finds from the middle ages.

                        I really don't want this read as a criticism, but I am
                        interested in this as a philosophical point. In
                        period, one would use a new buckle, not a
                        centuries-old one. So although a surviving find gets
                        full points for material, style, workmanship, etc, it
                        fails on sturdiness, lack of wear and tear,
                        essentially on age. So which is super-authentic, a
                        surviving find or a new piece of work which copies as
                        much as possible that surviving find (minus the
                        ravages of the centuries)?

                        The same question occurred to me while reading an
                        excellent book on medieval furniture which includes
                        sections on how to "age" it. If one is trying to copy
                        an extant piece exactly as it is now, that makes
                        sense. But it is not how the piece would have appeared
                        when it was made.

                        Obviously different people are going to have different
                        takes on this question, but I am interested in how
                        people thing about it?

                        Andrea of Anglespur
                        kitscaa Gwervyl verch Hywel Gwyddwyllt
                        So many books, so little time!

                        __________________________________________________
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                      • Bookwyrm
                        ... Ah, but that s the point. For ME, the markings are not medically necessary. The dog is medically necessary. The MARKINGS are a courtesy to those charged
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jun 2 10:35 AM
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                          On 02/06/06, d_archambeaux <ericarchambault@...> wrote:
                          > > On the last image, you can see what I take to be writing. Would
                          > >it be > minimally intrusive to use a similar font to write "Service
                          > Dog" on > the collar in modern English, in order to make the marking
                          >
                          > Any form of marking you deem necessary is going to be acceptable.
                          > This goes to the medical necessity threads that have been beaten to
                          > death on the list. If the markings have got to be balze orange
                          > with refelctive lettering, so be it.

                          Ah, but that's the point. For ME, the markings are not medically
                          necessary. The dog is medically necessary. The MARKINGS are a
                          courtesy to those charged with keeping pets out of no-pets sites.

                          The balancing act here is to courteously not intrude on other people's
                          enjoyment with something obviously out of period, like his mundane
                          embroidered nylong backpack, while still making it clear enough to the
                          terribly harassed person who is trying to make sure the rules are
                          followed and we may, in fact, use the site again that I am no threat,
                          and that she doesn't need to spend a lot of time arguing with me about
                          whether or not the dog is allowed.

                          Rest assured that I would not consider compromising something
                          medically necessary for the sake of authenticity . . . but I do want
                          to make it minimally intrusive. Standard disclaimer about these being
                          my standards for me, not ones that I would attempt to apply to anybody
                          else. I'm not trying to beat it to death, just to find independent
                          opinions on a particular proposed balance.

                          --
                          Bookwyrm and Empath
                          Ontario, Canada
                        • Bookwyrm
                          ... If not new, at least recent? You re right, of course, that if they endlessly recycled buckles, there wouldn t be enough finds for them to be affordable.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jun 2 11:30 AM
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                            On 02/06/06, Andrea Hughett <aindreva@...> wrote:
                            > In period, one would use a new buckle, not a
                            > centuries-old one.

                            If not new, at least recent? You're right, of course, that if they
                            endlessly recycled buckles, there wouldn't be enough finds for them to
                            be affordable. The most affordable artifacts are probably also the
                            most disposable. (The same holds true at a garage sale :-)

                            > So although a surviving find gets full points for
                            > material, style, workmanship, etc, it fails on
                            > sturdiness, lack of wear and tear, essentially on age.
                            > So which is super-authentic, a surviving find or a new
                            > piece of work which copies as much as possible that
                            > surviving find (minus the ravages of the centuries)?

                            Well, for me, part of the consideration was that metalwork is not one
                            of my skills. Buying a buckle is thus my only option. You are, of
                            course, correct in implying that a reasonably affluent persona would
                            have bought new . . . but this brings one to another issue: If the
                            original buckle was forged (as Ercule d'Archambeaux suggested to be
                            likely), modern buckles are stamped, and easily available
                            reproductions are cast (either from original work or from existing
                            finds)

                            Do I need to hunt down a smith?

                            > The same question occurred to me while reading an
                            > excellent book on medieval furniture which includes
                            > sections on how to "age" it. If one is trying to copy
                            > an extant piece exactly as it is now, that makes
                            > sense. But it is not how the piece would have appeared
                            > when it was made.

                            Hmm. But if we're doing things for recreational use, they won't GET
                            the same level of traffic that they would have gotten, and our
                            environments are different. I think my personal preference would be
                            to simulate how it would look after a year or two of use, rather than
                            centuries or brand new. Realistically, using brand new stuff is going
                            to be a fairly rare occurrence in a stuff-poor environment.

                            --
                            Bookwyrm and Empath
                            Ontario, Canada
                          • Dawn Malmstrom
                            ... In my opinion, any medical helper dog should be kept in their mundane uniforms . That way the mundane authorites can tell at a clance that they are
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jun 2 2:24 PM
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                              > For ME, the markings are not medically necessary. The dog is
                              > medically necessary. The MARKINGS are a courtesy to those charged
                              > with keeping pets out of no-pets sites.
                              >
                              > The balancing act here is to courteously not intrude on other
                              > people's enjoyment with something obviously out of period, like his
                              > mundane embroidered nylong backpack, while still making it clear
                              > enough to the terribly harassed person who is trying to make sure
                              > the rules are followed and we may, in fact, use the site again that
                              > I am no threat, and that she doesn't need to spend a lot of time
                              > arguing with me about whether or not the dog is allowed.
                              >

                              In my opinion, any medical helper dog should be kept in their mundane
                              "uniforms". That way the mundane authorites can tell at a clance that
                              they are working dogs, not pets (this is the best way of ending any
                              argument with the people at gate). Like wheelchairs, these are
                              something that I would gladly use my visual filter to accept. Also,
                              many have been taught to aproach a working dog differently then a pet.

                              For the sake of the SCA folk and ease of the site crew, I would
                              contact the Autocrat for the event before the event and have papers
                              for the dog to give to the person at the gate and a copy for the
                              chiurgeon. The autocrat can inform the site owner of the helper dog
                              coming --there are many laws on the books that insure that he is
                              welcome-- and be ready for you at the gate (remember many people at
                              gate are new).

                              I know its extra work, but it beats getting to an event only to have
                              to argue your way in.

                              Donata Bonacorsi
                            • Terri Morgan
                              I can attest that when someone with a working dog contacted me (when I was the Pennsic Troll) ahead of time, it was *wonderful*. Not only did it brighten my
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jun 4 5:15 PM
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                                I can attest that when someone with a working dog contacted me (when I was
                                the Pennsic Troll) ahead of time, it was *wonderful*. Not only did it
                                brighten my day but it increased the number of volunteers I had when the
                                word got out ("We're going to have a person come through with a sightdog/
                                alarm dog/ trained monkey (!) and they'll be needing to contact ____ when
                                they get here"). Everyone wanted to be the person who got to meet the dog
                                and its owner *first*, indulgent folks that they were.

                                I've seen working animals with and without special 'SCA' collars/backpacks -
                                generally, there has been no problem in recognising them as such no matter
                                what their collar looks like. When they're working, it's obvious. Use what
                                appeals to you. But may I suggest that if you do decide to make a special
                                'camping/vacation' collar for your dog, that you consider putting the
                                Chirurgeons symbol on it somewhere if you are concerned about other folks
                                being able to tell.


                                Hrothny
                              • Bookwyrm
                                ... That sounds like a wonderful idea. However, is it legal ? My dog is wonderful for MY needs, but he doesn t meet the standards to be part of the
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jun 4 5:28 PM
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                                  On 04/06/06, Terri Morgan <online2much@...> wrote:
                                  > But may I suggest that if you do decide to make a special
                                  > 'camping/vacation' collar for your dog, that you consider
                                  > putting the Chirurgeons symbol on it somewhere if you are
                                  > concerned about other folks being able to tell.

                                  That sounds like a wonderful idea.

                                  However, is it 'legal"? My dog is wonderful for MY needs, but he
                                  doesn't meet the standards to be part of the chirugeonate.

                                  --
                                  Bookwyrm and Empath
                                  Ontario, Canada
                                • Andrea Hughett
                                  Greetings all, Over the next several years I am going to be converting my house to a daycare center and the detached two-car garage to an adult retreat/sewing
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jun 19 4:32 PM
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                                    Greetings all,

                                    Over the next several years I am going to be
                                    converting my house to a daycare center and the
                                    detached two-car garage to an adult retreat/sewing
                                    room/cat haven/library/office. I think it would be fun
                                    to do it in a medieval style, more or less 12th/13th
                                    century Welsh/British. Although it obviously would not
                                    serve my needs to omit necessities such as sewing
                                    machine, computer, and excessive books from the place,
                                    I do want to hide them in furniture or behind curtains
                                    when not actually in use.

                                    So I am looking for ideas, pictures, descriptions,
                                    anything that will help me visualize the ambiance I am
                                    attempting to create.

                                    Thank you for your help.

                                    Andrea of Anglespur
                                    kitscaa Gwervyl verch Hywel Gwyddwyllt
                                    So many books, so little time!

                                    __________________________________________________
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                                  • Susan B. Farmer
                                    ... While this may be later than you want, Peter Thornton has a book titled The Italian Renaissance Interior. *wonderful* book! Here s a review
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jun 19 5:57 PM
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                                      Quoting Andrea Hughett <aindreva@...>:

                                      > Greetings all,
                                      >
                                      > Over the next several years I am going to be
                                      > converting my house to a daycare center and the
                                      > detached two-car garage to an adult retreat/sewing
                                      > room/cat haven/library/office. I think it would be fun
                                      > to do it in a medieval style, more or less 12th/13th
                                      > century Welsh/British. Although it obviously would not
                                      > serve my needs to omit necessities such as sewing
                                      > machine, computer, and excessive books from the place,
                                      > I do want to hide them in furniture or behind curtains
                                      > when not actually in use.
                                      >
                                      > So I am looking for ideas, pictures, descriptions,
                                      > anything that will help me visualize the ambiance I am
                                      > attempting to create.

                                      While this may be later than you want, Peter Thornton has a book titled
                                      The Italian Renaissance Interior.

                                      *wonderful* book!

                                      Here's a review
                                      http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3394/is_199409/ai_n8140290

                                      ILL may be your friend. As I recall, this is a pricey book.

                                      Jerusha
                                      -----
                                      Susan Farmer
                                      sfarmer@...
                                      University of Tennessee
                                      Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
                                      http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
                                    • Ii Saburou Katsumori (Joshua B.)
                                      A few thoughts: Chests and trunks make great places to store things (and it provides a place to put the sewing machine, etc., once you take it out). Ikea used
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jun 19 8:55 PM
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                                        A few thoughts:

                                        Chests and trunks make great places to store things (and it provides a
                                        place to put the sewing machine, etc., once you take it out). Ikea
                                        used to have some nice wooden chests that could easily be modified
                                        (painted, decorated, etc.) to fit into a more mediaeval look.

                                        For computers: Think about wireless computers and using laptops. The
                                        laptops can be hidden out of sight easily enough, and have the
                                        advantage of being portable.

                                        You can use curtains around the walls--a popular wall covering, at
                                        least in the 15th and 16th centuries (and I believe earlier) in
                                        England. This can allow you to hide doors or other items, if you
                                        want.

                                        Perhaps further than you want to go: World Market has some nice
                                        matting that reminds me of the rush mats that might give a good feel
                                        to the room, but I've not tried it myself.

                                        Just a few thoughts late at night.


                                        -Ii
                                      • Tiffany Brown
                                        The first two references that spring to mind: U.T. Holmes Daily living in the 12th Century I m sure you ve heard about it by now, possibly even read it. It
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jun 20 7:00 AM
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                                          The first two references that spring to mind:

                                          U.T. Holmes "Daily living in the 12th Century"
                                          I'm sure you've heard about it by now, possibly even read it. It has
                                          a long chapter describing the layout of a townhouse, and annother
                                          describing a country manor.
                                          The description seems to indicate rather less clutter of posetions
                                          than today, but false walls or wall hangings might be effective for
                                          soem intense storage spaces. Beds with hangings (to keep the warmth
                                          in) were the fashion, so maybe a fake bed wit hthe curtains closed
                                          could serve as a space for the sewing machine and other clutter?.

                                          Zarnecki (ed) "romenesque art" book and companion video
                                          There are several extant 12th C english buildings. One a dwelling in
                                          an upstairs corner of a warehouse. The book is great for fittings -
                                          check out the doorknobs and oil lamps, the video give a very brief,
                                          but 3D tour of some of those buildings.

                                          If you can't find those books instantly, let me know and I'll dig out
                                          a proper citation.

                                          There are also a lot of 12th C extant bits and bobs in museum online
                                          photo libraries - trunks, wall hangings, that sort of thing.

                                          Sounds like a facinating project,
                                          Teffania

                                          On 6/20/06, Andrea Hughett <aindreva@...> wrote:
                                          > Greetings all,
                                          >
                                          > Over the next several years I am going to be
                                          > converting my house to a daycare center and the
                                          > detached two-car garage to an adult retreat/sewing
                                          > room/cat haven/library/office. I think it would be fun
                                          > to do it in a medieval style, more or less 12th/13th
                                          > century Welsh/British. Although it obviously would not
                                          > serve my needs to omit necessities such as sewing
                                          > machine, computer, and excessive books from the place,
                                          > I do want to hide them in furniture or behind curtains
                                          > when not actually in use.
                                          >
                                          > So I am looking for ideas, pictures, descriptions,
                                          > anything that will help me visualize the ambiance I am
                                          > attempting to create.
                                          >
                                          > Thank you for your help.
                                          >
                                          > Andrea of Anglespur
                                          > kitscaa Gwervyl verch Hywel Gwyddwyllt
                                          > So many books, so little time!
                                          >
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                                        • Dragon
                                          MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT TOP-POST THANK YOU Hi, It does indeed sound fascinating, I do hope you will post pics and stuff. A lot depends on how accurate
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jun 20 10:34 AM
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                                            MODERATOR NOTE:
                                            PLEASE DO NOT TOP-POST
                                            THANK YOU

                                            Hi,

                                            It does indeed sound fascinating, I do hope you will post pics and stuff.

                                            A lot depends on how accurate you want to get. A lot of churches are
                                            being refitted around the country, you might find some treasure if you
                                            check out the architectural salvage places. I doubt it would be
                                            genuinely medieval but it might have the right look.

                                            Just a thought.

                                            Dragon
                                          • hawkhurstmanor@yahoo.com
                                            Andrea of Anglespur....room ideas Dear Lady, Last autumn I had my 2 1/2 car garage converted into a medieval Hall. The area that would have been the buttery
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jun 20 11:34 AM
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                                              Andrea of Anglespur....room ideas

                                              Dear Lady,

                                              Last autumn I had my 2 1/2 car garage converted into a medieval Hall. The area that would have been the buttery is my lovely laundry room that has excellent disguise when we have get togethers and all serving of beverages etc. takes place from this room. Where the solar would have been I have a storage rooom above the buttery and part of the hall, with a drop down staircase. We left the structural beams and enclosed them in somewhat rough planking to increase the size. These were burned with a torch to darken and age them before they were stained. I had a closet built to the approximate design of one I saw in Warrick Castle and also imitated a method of hanging colothing items on the wall. I went with modern triple glazed windows with cross hatching as I wanted all the light I could get for needlework, spinning and such. Fortunately I already had found a wall sconce and a chandelier on Ebay that are perfect in the lighting. The doorways are arched and the one into
                                              the house is waiting for it's planks. I found some nice hardware at Lowe's, and in catalogs.

                                              My real concession to medieval decorating is coming out in my wall paintings. I am copying several marvelous figures that I found in Easby Abby, England and in some examples of Danish church interiors. I did not initially think of painting anything more than faux stone walls, but I am hooked now on the murals. The odd shapes of the roof line and other bits are lending themselves nicely to some little odds and ends of characters I found here and there in wall art.

                                              We finished up with iron rods for curtains, antlers, old dark furniture and persian rugs and it is all coming together. It's the favorite room of the house.

                                              Hope this helps. If you have questions let me know.

                                              Elyn de Haoucmore




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                                            • Christiana
                                              Another response to: ... Here are 4 books to look up. The first 3 I have not had time to cross compare so I can t comment on accuracy, but they may be of some
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jun 20 5:19 PM
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                                                Another response to:

                                                Andrea Hughett <aindreva@...>:
                                                >
                                                > > Greetings all,
                                                > >
                                                > > Over the next several years I am going to be
                                                > > converting my house to a daycare center and the
                                                > > detached two-car garage to an adult retreat/sewing
                                                > > room/cat haven/library/office. I think it would be
                                                > fun
                                                > > to do it in a medieval style, more or less
                                                > 12th/13th
                                                > > century Welsh/British. Although it obviously would
                                                > not
                                                > > serve my needs to omit necessities such as sewing
                                                > > machine, computer, and excessive books from the
                                                > place,
                                                > > I do want to hide them in furniture or behind
                                                > curtains
                                                > > when not actually in use.
                                                > >
                                                > > So I am looking for ideas, pictures, descriptions,
                                                > > anything that will help me visualize the ambiance
                                                > I am
                                                > > attempting to create.
                                                >

                                                Here are 4 books to look up. The first 3 I have not
                                                had time to cross compare so I can't comment on
                                                accuracy, but they may be of some use:
                                                Life on a Medieval Barony by William Stearns Davis (an
                                                early 20th century book, with a scholarly background)
                                                A Baronial Household of the 13th Century by Margaret
                                                Wade Labarge (mid 20th century)
                                                Growing Up in the 13th Century by Alfred Duggan (publ.
                                                in England, mid 20th C)
                                                Lastly, I offer a definitely good quality book:
                                                Pilgrimage to Rome in the Middle Ages by Debra J.
                                                Birch, ISSN 0955-2480 by Boydell and Brewer. This
                                                originallly sold at $95 locally, but I waited VERY
                                                patiently until it was marked down enough to be
                                                affordable! Despite the subject, there is good info
                                                to glean. Well researched.

                                                Christiana de Avochelie

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                                              • Jerilyn Winstead
                                                MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT TOP-POST TO THIS LIST THANK YOU Elyn, please please please post some photos!!!!! drooling here Jane
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Jun 21 9:49 AM
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                                                  MODERATOR NOTE:
                                                  PLEASE DO NOT TOP-POST TO THIS LIST
                                                  THANK YOU

                                                  Elyn, please please please post some photos!!!!!

                                                  drooling here

                                                  Jane
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