Re: [Authentic_SCA] "Woven" lace??
> If a translation (even from early modern english) was involved, I canContinuing with the 'translation' idea - was the word 'lace' the author's,
> see the distinction between frame and loom not being the same in other
> On 2/3/06, Marybeth Lavrakas <katrous@...> wrote:
>> I happened across a description of a pageant in
>> Norwich in the 1570s that included paintings of the
>> various types of looms used to weave specialty fabrics
>> in the city, and one is for weaving lace. I have
or was it from the 1570s document? 'Making laces' was a (from memory) 15th
century term for what we now call fingerloop braiding. The 'lace' in
question here might not be what we think of now, but a different king of
Just tossing an idea in,
- On 2/3/06, Karen Hall <karenh@...> wrote:
> Continuing with the 'translation' idea - was the word 'lace' the author's,Yes, but there seems to be no european tradition of tools other than a
> or was it from the 1570s document? 'Making laces' was a (from memory) 15th
> century term for what we now call fingerloop braiding. The 'lace' in
> question here might not be what we think of now, but a different king of
> fabric/fibre product.
beater for fingerloop braiding. There is a period japanesese tool
(which I'm still not sure qualifies as a loom)which will beat the warp
for you, but in europe it seems to have been a tradition of using
additional manpower instead.
Tabletwoven or rigid heddle bands definately do use a loom, but I'm
not aware of them beign called laces - more often "bands of gold".
- No confusion on the language used (loom), although there's no saying
what the author really saw compared to how he decided to describe it.
I don't think it's lace in the sense of cording because everything
included in that particular pageant was a luxury or new textile that
Norwich was making huge money of (taffeta, bays, worsteds, lace...)
- Could this be what my Aunts called hairpin lace? I learned to make it as a child, quite literally on one of their hair pins with sewing thread. It made a pretty little edge that they sometimes continued to embellish with crochet. Later on my dad made me a couple more sizes so I could make wider "lace". Since then I have seen these wire frames being sold in shops and are labeled as "looms". Might this be what you are looking for?
> Could this be what my Aunts called hairpin lace? I learnedCrochet was invented sometime in the late eighteenth to early nineteenth centuries, probably as an outgrowth of tambour embroidery.
> to make it as a child, quite literally on one of their hair
> pins with sewing thread. It made a pretty little edge that
> they sometimes continued to embellish with crochet.
Since hairpin lace is made initially by crochet & then attached to itself with more crochet, I tend to think that the woven lace was not of that sort.
Perhaps the warp thread were being manipulated while on the loom to form hemstitching & other openwork, which are normally done on the cloth with threads removed.
But that is wild speculation.
Ann in CT
>I happened across a description of a pageant inThere are several kinds of open fabric woven on a loom. One of the
>Norwich in the 1570s that included paintings of the
>various types of looms used to weave specialty fabrics
>in the city, and one is for weaving lace. I have
>seperate documentary references for people weaving
>lace in the city, making needle lace, and making
>bobbin lace (most of whom were children, BTW).
>I'm not a lace person, but this is bugging me! What
>type of lace was woven on looms? Any extant examples
simplest is "leno" or "gauze" weave. The warps are crossed over each
other and held in place by the weft. It's simple but time consuming
to do on a regular loom. A "Doup" attachment that automates the
I don't have documentation, but think leno is very likely to be period.
DOUP: A special kind of HEDDLE, used in conjunction with ordinary
HEDDLES on the HARNESSES of a LOOM to cross and uncross WARP
filaments (in both a horizontal and vertical plane) when WEAVING
cross-thread tissues, such as gauze weave or leno weave
- Hi All,
Just wondering if anyone knows where I might be able to get a copy of the
Arnold, Janet (1977). "Elizabethan and Jacobean smocks and shirts".
Waffen-und Kostumkunde; Zeitschrift der Gessellschadt fur Historiche Waffen
-und Kostumkunde (Vol 19, Issue 2).
I've tried inter-library loan, but they say they can't get it. Any chance
someone knows an institution where this is available?
Any help gratefully appreciated.
- I've got it. Email me your address off list & I'll send it.
--- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Jane Stockton
> Hi All,
> Just wondering if anyone knows where I might be able to get a copy
> following article?shirts".
> Arnold, Janet (1977). "Elizabethan and Jacobean smocks and
> Waffen-und Kostumkunde; Zeitschrift der Gessellschadt furHistoriche Waffen
> -und Kostumkunde (Vol 19, Issue 2).chance
> I've tried inter-library loan, but they say they can't get it. Any
> someone knows an institution where this is available?
> Any help gratefully appreciated.
- Quoting "Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn" <malvoisine@...>:
> I've got it. Email me your address off list & I'll send it.Realizing that you didn't offer to send it to *everybody* on the list
> Margaret Hepburn
If you are emailing out more than one copy, I'd like a copy -- or even
just the page numbers, and I'll get my own copy via ILL.
University of Tennessee
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology