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Re: Quilting was: Pillow stuffing

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  • bex_1014
    ... nearly ... I just wanted to ask, when and where? We seem to be talking English Tudor times here, but what if you wanted a quilt from 14th C France?
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 2, 2006
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      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
      >
      > Ooo, good point from Lady Christian...wool doesn't seem to have been
      nearly
      > as popular as cotton for stuffing and batting, and for good reason:

      <snip>
      I just wanted to ask, when and where? We seem to be talking English
      Tudor times here, but what if you wanted a quilt from 14th C France? Or
      Normandy in 1066? Is there any evidence from earlier times? I thought
      that cotton-wool is progressively scarcer and more expensive the
      further back in time, and further from the Mediterranean, leading me to
      think that 14th C England, if it had quilts, would be more likely to
      have them padded with wool, unless you were very well off.
      curious,
      Rebecca
    • kittencat3@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/2/2006 8:51:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, tonkin.rebecca@saugov.sa.gov.au writes: I just wanted to ask, when and where? We seem to be
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 2, 2006
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        In a message dated 2/2/2006 8:51:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        tonkin.rebecca@... writes:

        I just wanted to ask, when and where? We seem to be talking English
        Tudor times here, but what if you wanted a quilt from 14th C France? Or
        Normandy in 1066? Is there any evidence from earlier times? I thought
        that cotton-wool is progressively scarcer and more expensive the
        further back in time, and further from the Mediterranean, leading me to
        think that 14th C England, if it had quilts, would be more likely to
        have them padded with wool, unless you were very well off.
        14th century France - quilt would have been trapunto wholecloth of linen
        stuffed with cotton. Rene of Anjou owned one, and there was a quilt in Italy
        prior to WWII (it may not have survived) that featured the fleur-de-lis of Anjou
        and/or France as a prominent design motif.

        Norman times - probably not unless you somehow knew someone with connections
        to a Silk Road caravan, and certainly not on a bed. There's a huge gap
        between the one known Merovingian quilted piece (probably an import, 6-7th century)
        and a 12th century reference to a quilt in a French lai.

        Earlier times - there's a quilted tomb rug from Siberia that dates to the 1st
        century of the Common Era. There's a great picture of it in Averil Colby's
        book =Quilting.=

        I haven't found any evidence for wool used in quilts as padding before the
        time of Henry VIII; quilted armor was stuffed with cotton or linen because it
        provided more protection than wool, for instance. Wool as the quilt top seems
        to have originated in America in the 18th century in imitation of cotton and
        silk wholecloths, and may have developed from the bed rugg, or heavy hooked
        coverlet that was standard in the 17th and 18th centuries in New England.

        English quilting - very little evidence for a homegrown tradition until just
        after the SCA period, I'm afraid. Quilts were an expensive luxury item and
        were imported, either from the Low Countries (linen and cotton "holland cloth"
        quilts) or the Far East and India (silk wholecloths and Bengali cottons from
        Goa).

        Hope this helps....

        Sarah Davies


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      • Eirene Tzimiskina Kontostephanina
        ... were also ... flockes (raw ... though...what about ... Feathers *seem* to be likely. But so far I can t find anything that would indicate what was
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
          >
          > Quilts were by and large stuffed with cotton (although linen quilts
          were also
          > stuffed with wool in the 16th century), either rolled flat or
          "flockes" (raw
          > chunks, most likely in trapunto). Not sure about pillows,
          though...what about
          > feathers?
          >

          Feathers *seem* to be likely. But so far I can't find anything that
          would indicate what was contained within any one pillow. I did find a
          Renaissance inventory that listed a "feather bed and bolster" as if
          they were a pair. It might be that the word "feather" described both
          items. Or not.

          I'm focusing on the 14th-15th centuries, btw.

          Lijsbet
        • Eirene Tzimiskina Kontostephanina
          ... A bit *too* early I m afraid. ;-) Lijsbet
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, NINacide@... wrote:
            >
            > _http://www.catherineshinn.com/acatalog/antique_pillows.htm_
            > (http://www.catherineshinn.com/acatalog/antique_pillows.htm)
            >
            > "The earliest Pillows were formed wrapped around leaves or straw"
            >
            > Mikhail
            >

            A bit *too* early I'm afraid. ;-)

            Lijsbet
          • Angharad ver' Reynulf
            ... From: kittencat3@aol.com To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 2:59:38 PM Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Pillow stuffing
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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              ----- Original Message ----
              From: kittencat3@...
              To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 2:59:38 PM
              Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Pillow stuffing


              Quilts were by and large stuffed with cotton (although linen quilts were also
              stuffed with wool in the 16th century), either rolled flat or "flockes" (raw
              chunks, most likely in trapunto). Not sure about pillows, though...what about
              feathers?

              Sarah Davies


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            • Angharad ver' Reynulf
              Apologies on the first message, my enter key was a bit touchy. I intended to ask what would be a relatively easy-to-find modern equivalent to the cotton used
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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                Apologies on the first message, my enter key was a bit touchy.

                I intended to ask what would be a relatively easy-to-find modern equivalent to the cotton used to stuff the earlier medieval quilts.

                Thank you,

                Angharad ver' Reynulf
              • Terri Morgan
                let me begin by stating that late 16th century is not my period. But I am re-vamping my first (pathetic) attempt at trous and a jerkin (or maybe a doublet this
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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                  let me begin by stating that late 16th century is not my period. But I am
                  re-vamping my first (pathetic) attempt at trous and a jerkin (or maybe a
                  doublet this time) for my husband so he won't be out of place at
                  Elizabethan-era events and demos. This, of course, led to a discussion about
                  what he would like (good Viking that he is) and what I would be willing to
                  make. And in the course of the discussion came a question not really
                  addressed by "Patterns of Fashion" or QEWU, so far as I could find.
                  Was it unusual for a man to have trous of one colour/fabric and a jerkin
                  or doublet of another? Paintings seem to indicate that both top and bottom
                  were matching yet what I've looked at could well be considered 'cursory'
                  compared to those of you who are of later-period personas. I'd like to make
                  two trous to every jerkin/doublet so he can work with no fear of having to
                  change his entire outfit...


                  Hrothny
                • Eirene Tzimiskina Kontostephanina
                  ... equivalent to the cotton used to stuff the earlier medieval quilts. ... There is quite a bit of cotton batting on the market. Your local JoAnns should
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
                    <dragonwolfcat@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Apologies on the first message, my enter key was a bit touchy.
                    >
                    > I intended to ask what would be a relatively easy-to-find modern
                    equivalent to the cotton used to stuff the earlier medieval quilts.
                    >
                    > Thank you,
                    >
                    > Angharad ver' Reynulf
                    >

                    There is quite a bit of cotton batting on the market. Your local
                    JoAnns should carry it.

                    Lijsbet
                  • Eirene Tzimiskina Kontostephanina
                    ... ... I can t rule out feathers, but neither can I document their common use. The Paston inventories show that of thirteen pillows only two were
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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                      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
                      <snip>
                      > Not sure about pillows, though...what about
                      > feathers?
                      >

                      I can't rule out feathers, but neither can I document their common
                      use. The Paston inventories show that of thirteen pillows only two
                      were remarkable enough to list the contents, that being down. The rest
                      would seem to be common enough that a description of the contents
                      wasn't required.

                      Lijsbet
                    • kittencat3@aol.com
                      Two suggestions and a recommendation: For flocking, try either cotton cosmetic puffs or the soft outer layer of a roll of old-fashioned wound cotton. I ve
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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                        Two suggestions and a recommendation:

                        For flocking, try either cotton cosmetic puffs or the soft outer layer of a
                        roll of old-fashioned wound cotton. I've tried the latter and it does work,
                        and a lady on the Medieval Quilting tried the former with excellent results.

                        If you want to do flat quilting, use a Harriett Hargraves organic cotton
                        batt. It's marvelous to work with, and can be found pretty easily in quilt shops
                        and online.


                        Sarah Davies


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