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Hoping for some help...

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  • Marge Adams
    Greetings to you all! I just joined this group because I am new to the SCA and have found out that I m kind of a stickler for authenticity. Or at least
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 2, 2006
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      Greetings to you all!
      I just joined this group because I am new to the SCA and have found
      out that I'm kind of a stickler for authenticity. Or at least knowing
      what would be authentic.

      I have been sewing garb and am already frustrated about what
      is "period." I have found garb online selling for hundreds of dollars
      and made out of various poly blends including panne velvet (yuck) I
      have questions about what fabrics would be acceptable. Wool and
      linen, I know and have made kirtles, cotehardies, sideless surcoats.
      (I also made a couple of chemises out of 100% cotton muslin for
      practice.)

      On the SCA garb group, they have been talking about using wide-wale
      corduroy for cloaks? Would that be period? Now I'm not judgemental
      about what people choose to do, wear, etc. I just want to know if it
      would have been done and it seems like I get jumped on just for
      asking. Or when I ask about using cotton velvet, I just want to KNOW.

      Thanks,
      Marge
    • femmedelyon
      Welcome to the group, Monday Jan.2,2006 I commend your interest in authenticity. Yes, it is frustrating to see garb for sale that is rather expensive and
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 2, 2006
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        Welcome to the group, Monday Jan.2,2006
        I commend your interest in authenticity. Yes, it is frustrating to
        see garb for sale that is rather expensive and not as authentic,even
        in fabric choice,as one would wish. Wool and linen are always a good
        bet. Using muslin for the "practice version" is good too since it's
        so much cheaper and if you make mistakes you havne't butchered your 6-
        plus-dollar a yard linen.
        Since you mention cotehardies and sideless surcoats I have to
        believe your interest is earlier-than-Elizabethan. I believe that
        curduroy isn't period for,say,the 14th century. I would recommend
        instead a good, solid,blankety wool. In my experience this is also
        generally more obtainable and cheaper since everyone is usually
        looking for finer wool thus leaving the field on heavy wool open to
        the rest of us.
        Might I also suggest,from experience,that(as cool as it looks)you
        make you cloak shorter rather than longer.Say ankle length or above
        since although a long,swoopy cloak looks cool it tends to drag in
        everything you don't want it to drag in,mud,water,the fire etc. Also
        wool is great for cloaks since it won't burn,always a plus around
        campfires. I can sympathize with you hunt for period fabrics since
        I'm always looking for them, for less,myself. Happy sewing!
        yours,
        Johanna


        > I have found garb online selling for hundreds of dollars
        > and made out of various poly blends including panne velvet (yuck)
        I
        > have questions about what fabrics would be acceptable. Wool and
        > linen, I know and have made kirtles, cotehardies, sideless
        surcoats.
        > (I also made a couple of chemises out of 100% cotton muslin for
        > practice.)
        >
        > >
        > Thanks,
        > Marge
        >
      • Heather Rose Jones
        ... Hi, welcome to the list. And welcome to the confusing world of authenticity. I think the one thing that helps keep most of us sane around the topic of
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 2, 2006
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          On Jan 2, 2006, at 8:30 AM, Marge Adams wrote:

          > Greetings to you all!
          > I just joined this group because I am new to the SCA and have found
          > out that I'm kind of a stickler for authenticity. Or at least knowing
          > what would be authentic.
          >
          > I have been sewing garb and am already frustrated about what
          > is "period." I have found garb online selling for hundreds of dollars
          > and made out of various poly blends including panne velvet (yuck) I
          > have questions about what fabrics would be acceptable. Wool and
          > linen, I know and have made kirtles, cotehardies, sideless surcoats.
          > (I also made a couple of chemises out of 100% cotton muslin for
          > practice.)
          >

          Hi, welcome to the list. And welcome to the confusing world of
          authenticity. I think the one thing that helps keep most of us sane
          around the topic of historically authentic fabrics is deciding that
          the question is foremost a personal one. This re-directs the quest
          from asking "Would fabric X be acceptable?" (to whom? who gets to
          say it is?) to "Based on my current knowledge of historic practice,
          and based on my own goals, priorities, and circumstances, am I
          comfortable with choosing to use fabric X for my current purpose?"

          If you get into that head-space, then you can stop worrying about
          what fabrics other people may be using for the garments they make and/
          or sell (which can be a great relief) and focus on both expanding
          your knowledge of what was done historically and examining your own
          priorities so that you can deal sensibly with any necessary compromises.

          > On the SCA garb group, they have been talking about using wide-wale
          > corduroy for cloaks? Would that be period? Now I'm not judgemental
          > about what people choose to do, wear, etc. I just want to know if it
          > would have been done and it seems like I get jumped on just for
          > asking. Or when I ask about using cotton velvet, I just want to KNOW.

          The problem is, it's rarely a question of simple "yes" or "no".
          (Sometimes it is, but rarely.) It's fairly rare for there to be a
          single answer to "is X period?" because the specifics can vary
          enormously across time and space within the SCA's scope. But even
          more complicated is that questions like this generally come down more
          to considerations like, "How close is modern fabric X (which I can
          get) to historic fabric Y (which I can't get)?" or "If I can't find a
          commercially available fabric today with all the characteristics of
          the historic fabric I want to emulate, what fabrics are available
          that most resemble that fabric and what are the reasons for
          compromising in one direction rather than another?" (This is the
          perennial problem with trying to emulate historic velvets.)

          Tangwystyl

          --
          Heather Rose Jones
          heather.jones@...
          http://www.heatherrosejones.com
          LJ:hrj
        • Amy Heilveil
          In addition to Tangwystyl s wonderful advice, let me add this: in part, the fabric that would be correct for your persona depends on time, place, and societal
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 3, 2006
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            In addition to Tangwystyl's wonderful advice, let me add this: in part, the
            fabric that would be correct for your persona depends on time, place, and
            societal ranking (I mean of the society you are trying to emulate, not the
            SCA).

            A 9th century Pict woman would not have worn silk, but more likely wool. A
            10th century Chinese princess would have worn silk. A 16th century English
            noble woman would have had clothes of silk, wool, and linen. Time and place
            matters for this question.

            So where/when are you researching? :)

            Smiles,
            Despina


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jeffrey.heilveil@ndsu.edu
            ... Well, the funny thing about the SCA is that it covers a wide range of time and geography. For example, Fina, who has an early-period persona from the
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 3, 2006
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              Marge asked:

              > Would that be period?

              Well, the funny thing about the SCA is that it covers a wide range of time
              and geography. For example, Fina, who has an early-period persona from
              the Isles, wouldn't have traveled to war, as she told us earlier. For
              Despina and I, on the other hand, in the first half of the 15th Century on
              the Transylvanian-Wallachian border, we probably would have, because of
              where the battlefronts were at the time and what it would mean if those
              nasty Ottomans overran Brasov (yogurt EVERYWHERE!).

              So you see, it's incredibly helpful if we have a general idea of the
              when/where that interests you. Of course, that's harder since you're new
              and may not have found your area/time of interest yet.

              Welcome and good luck. I'll leave the question answering to the
              textile-inclined.

              Bogdan

              -----------------------------------------------------------
              Jeffrey S. Heilveil, Ph.D.
              Postdoctoral Fellow
              Department of Biological Sciences
              North Dakota State University
              Stevens Hall
              Fargo, ND 58105
              jeffrey.heilveil@...
            • Marge Adams
              ... I ve decided on late 14th century, hence the cotehardies, etc. Most likely England, though I am also interested in the Low Countries. (However info on
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 3, 2006
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                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Amy Heilveil
                <amyheilveil@g...> wrote:
                >
                > So where/when are you researching? :)
                >
                > Smiles,
                > Despina
                >


                I've decided on late 14th century, hence the cotehardies, etc. Most
                likely England, though I am also interested in the Low Countries.
                (However info on that area for the time period is
                somewhat...elusive.)
                My 14yo daughter is doing the same period and we have made a lot of
                basic stuff. I'm trying to figure out what might be nice for court
                or a ball. Also, what might be good for a masqued ball.
                (Specifically, masque ideas.)

                My sons want to be Mongols which is proving to be a little more
                challenging for me. Silk dels for 12 & 13 yo boys? I don't think
                so. Linen doesn't seem appropriate, so cotton? Wool? I just don't
                know... I am getting closer to actually being ready to cut
                something out, finally, esp. with help from the link on this site.
                But what to use?

                Does that help?
                Marge
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