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Authenticity list?

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  • Park McKellop
    Subject: Re: Authentic ? ... I think the key is to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. ;-) We all have different places to draw that line. So if a
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 27, 2005
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      Subject: Re: "Authentic"?

      >
      > Why is this list called "Authentic SCA"?
      >
      > Most of what seems to go on here is people fighting tooth and nail to defend the very _inauthentic_ things they do in the name of modern convenience and passive-aggressively complaining about anyone who actually wants to do something period, like wear fur.

      I think the key is to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. ;-) We all have different places to draw that line. So if a certain shoe expert ;-) tells me that there is one place in Switzerland to get authentically produced leather, but it will cost several hundred dollars just for the leather for a pair of shoes (assuming I don't ruin any), then I'll probably be satisfied with The Leather Factory veg-tanned. ;-)

      Alcyoneus



      ---------------------------------
      Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.

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    • NINacide@aol.com
      ...We all have different places to draw that line. . .I ll probably be satisfied with The Leather Factory veg-tanned. ;-) On this note, I d like to say
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 27, 2005
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        " ...We all have different places to draw that line. . .I'll probably be
        satisfied with The Leather Factory veg-tanned. ;-)"

        On this note, I'd like to say that I like keeping the C in SCA. If I can
        make something through simple and manual means, in ways that could have been
        done in period, then I feel like I've created something that is period. Lets
        say for example that I sew a sheepskin with wool thread or some such natural
        fiber, into a garment that simple and functional, in this case I feel that
        what I've made counts because it could have been made in period.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
        ... All the same, it is good to know what you are substituting, so you know how close you are. You might not use the expensive leather for your first pair, but
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 27, 2005
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          > I think the key is to not let the perfect be the enemy of the
          >good. ;-) We all have different places to draw that line. So if a
          >certain shoe expert ;-) tells me that there is one place in
          >Switzerland to get authentically produced leather, but it will cost
          >several hundred dollars just for the leather for a pair of shoes
          >(assuming I don't ruin any), then I'll probably be satisfied with
          >The Leather Factory veg-tanned.

          All the same, it is good to know what you are substituting, so you
          know how close you are.

          You might not use the expensive leather for your first pair, but the
          time may come when you DO want that perfect thing. The leather from
          Switzerland, the handwoven wool, the perfect silk, the Irish linen,
          the real gold embroidery thread.

          Ranvaig
        • wodeford
          MODERATOR S NOTE - KINDLY SIGN YOUR POSTS! THANK YOU.
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 27, 2005
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            MODERATOR'S NOTE - KINDLY SIGN YOUR POSTS! THANK YOU.
            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, NINacide@a... wrote:
            > On this note, I'd like to say that I like keeping the C in SCA.
          • gedney@OPTONLINE.NET
            ... Not exactly true in all cases... materials and techniques are not enough. If you sewed in this way, say a garment that is cut and assembled exactly as a
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 27, 2005
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              > On this note, I'd like to say that I like keeping the C in SCA.
              > If I can
              > make something through simple and manual means, in ways that could
              > have been
              > done in period, then I feel like I've created something that is
              > period. Lets
              > say for example that I sew a sheepskin with wool thread or some
              > such natural
              > fiber, into a garment that simple and functional, in this case I
              > feel that
              > what I've made counts because it could have been made in period.

              Not exactly true in all cases...

              materials and techniques are not enough.

              If you sewed in this way, say a garment that is cut and assembled exactly
              as a bomber jacket... would it still be "period" even if you used period
              tanned sheepskin and wool thread?
              My opinion wold be "no".

              You have still to do enough research so as to be able to say that what you
              are making with your period materials would have been made in period in
              the first place.

              IMHO, it takes a LOT more creativity to create a new item that is based on
              a historical understanding of period usage, than it does to create an
              essentially modern thing using period techniques or materials.

              Whether it is song, knives, whatever, haring to the delineation of "Possible"
              more often than not yeilds fantasy or supposition based "artifacts".

              Personally, I stay closer to the "actual" line, when I can.

              Wood is wood, but I dont recall any examples of water skis in any period
              texts or images, even if they are a creative "interpretation" of a period
              material.
              Heck they could have done it, and we have no "proof" that they didn't.

              No records exist that ships in period used "ships wheels" for steering.
              Was it possible to MAKE one?
              yes.
              They had the technology, of course. Its afterall just a windlass hooked
              to some pulleys to work the tiller.
              But while we have many examples of other forms of steering gear,
              this one exists nowhere in the SCA period.
              So I have to conclude that ship's wheels are not period.
              No matter what you make it out of, or make it with.

              The same thing applies throught the spectrum of materials.
              A vacuum pump only requires a sealed tank, hoses, valves, a piston and
              cylinder. They had these.
              A light bulb needs only glass, metal, and that vacuum pump.

              Given the materials available by the end of period, I could, with a
              sufficient budget, put a person in low earth orbit, and return him to
              earth.
              It's possible.
              It might not work all the time, but it is possible.

              As far as I am concerned, the authenticity line can not be drawn at
              "What could they have done with these materials?"
              but rather it is drawn at
              "What DID they do with these materials?"

              That does not eliminate creativity.
              It merely challenges it.
              It just gives it a limited sphere in which to work.
              But there is still lots of room for personalization and creativitiy in
              period forms and techniques wuthin that limitation.

              Capt Elias
              Dragonship Haven, East
              (Stratford, CT, USA)

              -Renaissance Geek of the Cyber Seas

              - Help! I am being pecked to death by the Ducks of Dilletanteism!
              There are SO damn many more things I want to try in the SCA
              than I can possibly have time for. It's killing me!!!

              -------------------------------------------------------------
              Upon the hempen tackle ship-boys climbing;
              Hear the shrill whistle which doth order give
              To sounds confused; behold the threaden sails,
              Borne with the invisible and creeping wind,
              Draw the huge bottoms through the furrow'd sea,
              Breasting the lofty surge: O, do but think
              You stand upon the ravage and behold
              A city on the inconstant billows dancing;
              For so appears this fleet majestical,
              Holding due course to Harfleur.
              - Shakespeare - Henry V, Act III, Prologue
            • Adele de Maisieres
              ... By that definition, sushi could have been made by 15th century french cooks. That doesn t make it appropriate, though. -- Adele de Maisieres ... Habeo
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 1, 2006
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                NINacide@... wrote:

                > Lets
                > say for example that I sew a sheepskin with wool thread or some such natural
                > fiber, into a garment that simple and functional, in this case I feel that
                > what I've made counts because it could have been made in period.

                By that definition, sushi could have been made by 15th century french
                cooks. That doesn't make it appropriate, though.


                --
                Adele de Maisieres

                -----------------------------
                Habeo metrum - musicamque,
                hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
                -Georgeus Gershwinus
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