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Re: linen outerwear

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  • Marybeth Lavrakas
    Don t know why you say there s stuff all evidence of linen outerwear, because there IS (at least for the 16th C, LOL!) Some place amdist all the piles of
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 3, 2005
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      Don't know why you say there's "stuff all" evidence of
      linen outerwear, because there IS (at least for the
      16th C, LOL!)

      Some place amdist all the piles of papers around me is
      the hug pile of notes from 16th C English women's
      wills, and even working from the US I've found clear
      mentions of linen outerwear (I'm vaguely remembering a
      coat, also dresses). And there's a surviving man's
      quilted linen doublet, but I think that's immediately
      post-period.

      Also, back to the dye discussion, linen was dyed, most
      often with no mordant needed items like woad/indigo,
      archil, but also with the complicated process of extra
      mordanting with alum and tannin before dyeing. Recipes
      abound for late period linen dyeing, but no matter the
      period it's going to be an expensive product (except
      non-mordant stuff) because of the extra time and
      materials needed. I've got a lot of mentions in Tudor
      wills of russet linen kirtles, very popular color. If
      I'm remembering the dye recipes correctly, they used
      brazil.

      Brazil is great when newly dyed, but sun fades it out
      to brown. I recently was looking at the MFA in
      Boston's web site, and they have a pair of what they
      call 'brown and cream' striped wool gloves that
      traditionally belonged to Cardinal Richelieu. I betcha
      $10 they weren't brown, they were red and white, but
      brazil was the colorant and it's faded.
      Cochineal/kermes and madder don't change color like
      that.

      Also interesting is that I found several times where a
      distinction was made if the clothing & other items was
      made from hemp.

      Lady Kateryn Rous, CP
      House Broussard
      Windmasters Hill
      http://sca.livingpast.com
    • Adele de Maisieres
      ... Would love to see the English wills evidence. I ve seen some initial information about the doublet-- I think it s 1630s or something fairly similar.
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 3, 2005
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        Marybeth Lavrakas wrote:

        >Don't know why you say there's "stuff all" evidence of
        >linen outerwear, because there IS (at least for the
        >16th C, LOL!)
        >
        >Some place amdist all the piles of papers around me is
        >the hug pile of notes from 16th C English women's
        >wills, and even working from the US I've found clear
        >mentions of linen outerwear (I'm vaguely remembering a
        >coat, also dresses). And there's a surviving man's
        >quilted linen doublet, but I think that's immediately
        >post-period.
        >
        >

        Would love to see the English wills evidence. I've seen some initial
        information about the doublet-- I think it's 1630s or something fairly
        similar. Which is to say that there's a some amount of evidence for
        linen in 16th C England, but still stuff-all for 13th C.


        --
        Adele de Maisieres

        -----------------------------
        Habeo metrum - musicamque,
        hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
        -Georgeus Gershwinus
        -----------------------------
      • Marc Carlson
        Admittedly, I have no idea what the original message was here, or what was said, I d just like to give a friendly word of caution about making absolute
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 3, 2005
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          Admittedly, I have no idea what the original message was here, or what
          was said, I'd just like to give a friendly word of caution about
          making absolute statements about how they did did things - we are
          dealing with different periods, different regions and even different
          social classes.

          For example, in the King's Mirror, unless I'm mistaken, it says
          explicitly that a gentleman would never linen outerwear. Ok, fair
          enough, but that's mid-13th century Norway. And there are very few
          extant linen garments, and they do generally *appear* to be
          undergarments. OTOH, there is a 16th century linen doublet that was
          found in Reigate, Surry, and may be a workman's garment
          (http://www.concealedgarments.org/)

          Marc/Diarmaid
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