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Colors (hot pink)

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  • Park McKellop
    Brazilwood, and logwood are both New World, so 12thC??? ;-) My 8yo daughter will be happy about the hot pink, she has requested that. And I found some hot pink
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 1, 2005
      Brazilwood, and logwood are both New World, so 12thC??? ;-)

      My 8yo daughter will be happy about the hot pink, she has requested that.

      And I found some hot pink ramie linen at Walmart for $2...

      Alcyoneus




      So color is relative. One thing I can say about color... bright pink
      can happen with Brazilwood, cochineal and madder. I did a truely hot
      pink using Brazilwood with an after bath of ammonia. Whew! So those who
      tell you this is not period are mistaken. It did occur, in Western
      Europe in the 12th century.



      "dilitaunt"


      ---------------------------------
      Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dilitaunt
      ... requested that. MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE SIGN ALL OF YOUR POSTS TO THIS LIST Look at some of the 14 century Italian manuscripts, hot pink was used in them.
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 1, 2005
        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Park McKellop <squire009@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Brazilwood, and logwood are both New World, so 12thC??? ;-)
        >
        > My 8yo daughter will be happy about the hot pink, she has
        requested that.

        MODERATOR NOTE:
        PLEASE SIGN ALL OF YOUR POSTS TO THIS LIST

        Look at some of the 14 century Italian manuscripts, hot pink was
        used in them. And the dyestuffs were available to them at that time
        so we can reasonably say it was worn. See, people didn't have any
        better taste then either!

        I was suprized to learn that Brazilwood was available as a trade
        good myself.
        Believe it or not, Brazil was named after the wood not the other way
        around.
        Brazilwood is documented to Scotland in 1186 when a law was written
        there. I would have to go and hunt down the reference but it had to
        do with trying to improve the quality of cloth being produced in the
        area at the time.

        As far as I know so far, you are correct about logwood being New
        World but that still places it in the 1500s. This is hearsay but
        someone I was talking with said they have read about log wood being
        pirated because it was so valuable. Odd thought eh?
      • kittencat3@aol.com
        Cochineal produces dark magenta on silk, and hot pink on linen. And there *were* hot pinks in period, at least in Italy - look at some of the manuscripts from
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
          Cochineal produces dark magenta on silk, and hot pink on linen. And there
          *were* hot pinks in period, at least in Italy - look at some of the manuscripts
          from the 15th centuries.

          Sarah Davies


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kamala / Kathy
          ... Brazilwood from Caesalpinia echinata is New World. Brazilwood from Caesalpinia sappan is Old World - India, Southern China and SE Asia. Brazil, the
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
            > Brazilwood, and logwood are both New World, so 12thC??? ;-)
            >
            > Alcyoneus
            >
            Brazilwood from Caesalpinia echinata is New World. Brazilwood from Caesalpinia sappan is
            Old World - India, Southern China and SE Asia. Brazil, the country, was named after the wood
            not the other way around.

            There were also Old World varities of Cochineal (in Armenia and Poland).

            Kamala
          • Heather M
            ... Wow, that s a jaw-dropper. I had no idea! ... Well, not so much. Logwood is, IIRC, really rich in concentration of dyestuff. They sell it in both chunks
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
              dilitaunt wrote:


              >
              > I was suprized to learn that Brazilwood was available as a trade
              > good myself.
              > Believe it or not, Brazil was named after the wood not the other way
              > around.
              > Brazilwood is documented to Scotland in 1186 when a law was written
              > there. I would have to go and hunt down the reference but it had to
              > do with trying to improve the quality of cloth being produced in the
              > area at the time.

              Wow, that's a jaw-dropper. I had no idea!

              > As far as I know so far, you are correct about logwood being New
              > World but that still places it in the 1500s. This is hearsay but
              > someone I was talking with said they have read about log wood being
              > pirated because it was so valuable. Odd thought eh?
              >

              Well, not so much. Logwood is, IIRC, really rich in concentration of
              dyestuff. They sell it in both chunks half the size of my fist and in
              *splinters.*

              Margaret
            • Heather M
              ... Really? Do they give similar dyeing results? Inquiring minds, Margaret Northwode
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                Kamala / Kathy wrote:

                > Brazilwood from Caesalpinia echinata is New World. Brazilwood from
                > Caesalpinia sappan is Old World - India, Southern China and SE Asia. Brazil, the country, was named after the wood not the other way around.
                >
                > There were also Old World varities of Cochineal (in Armenia and Poland).
                >

                Really? Do they give similar dyeing results?

                Inquiring minds,
                Margaret Northwode
              • Cynthia J Ley
                I remember reading an article in TI some time back written by Chris Laning, who pointed out that cochineal was fugitive when exposed to light. Perhaps this is
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                  I remember reading an article in TI some time back written by Chris
                  Laning, who pointed out that cochineal was fugitive when exposed to
                  light. Perhaps this is what produced those lovely soft pinks we find in
                  Duc de Berry's books of hours.

                  Arlys

                  On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 06:37:35 EST kittencat3@... writes:
                  > Cochineal produces dark magenta on silk, and hot pink on linen. And
                  > there
                  > *were* hot pinks in period, at least in Italy - look at some of the
                  > manuscripts
                  > from the 15th centuries.
                  >
                  > Sarah Davies
                • Kamala / Kathy
                  ... The pigment brazilein is in both Brazilwood which is what produces the color. Or were you asking about the Cochineal? Kamala
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                    >
                    > Kamala / Kathy wrote:
                    >
                    > > Brazilwood from Caesalpinia echinata is New World. Brazilwood from
                    > > Caesalpinia sappan is Old World
                    >
                    > > There were also Old World varities of Cochineal (in Armenia and Poland).
                    > >
                    >
                    > Really? Do they give similar dyeing results?
                    >
                    > Inquiring minds,
                    > Margaret Northwode
                    >
                    The pigment brazilein is in both Brazilwood which is what produces the color.

                    Or were you asking about the Cochineal?

                    Kamala
                  • kittencat3@aol.com
                    Yes. Lac, kermes, and the various types of cochineal all give bright blue-reds and pinks ranging from rose to magenta. Sarah Davie ... From: Heather M
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                      Yes. Lac, kermes, and the various types of cochineal all give bright blue-reds and pinks ranging from rose to magenta.

                      Sarah Davie

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Heather M <margaretnorthwode@...>
                      To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 08:57:01 -0600
                      Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Colors (hot pink)


                      Kamala / Kathy wrote:

                      > Brazilwood from Caesalpinia echinata is New World. Brazilwood from
                      > Caesalpinia sappan is Old World - India, Southern China and SE Asia. Brazil,
                      the country, was named after the wood not the other way around.
                      >
                      > There were also Old World varities of Cochineal (in Armenia and Poland).
                      >

                      Really? Do they give similar dyeing results?

                      Inquiring minds,
                      Margaret Northwode





                      ----------------------------------------------------
                      This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
                      Yahoo! Groups Links






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • kittencat3@aol.com
                      Big problem with logwood: it s not lightfast on cellulosic fibers. It s much better on silk and wool. Sarah Davies ... From: Heather M
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                        Big problem with logwood: it's not lightfast on cellulosic fibers. It's much better on silk and wool.

                        Sarah Davies

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Heather M <margaretnorthwode@...>
                        To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 08:55:53 -0600
                        Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Colors (hot pink)


                        dilitaunt wrote:


                        >
                        > I was suprized to learn that Brazilwood was available as a trade
                        > good myself.
                        > Believe it or not, Brazil was named after the wood not the other way
                        > around.
                        > Brazilwood is documented to Scotland in 1186 when a law was written
                        > there. I would have to go and hunt down the reference but it had to
                        > do with trying to improve the quality of cloth being produced in the
                        > area at the time.

                        Wow, that's a jaw-dropper. I had no idea!

                        > As far as I know so far, you are correct about logwood being New
                        > World but that still places it in the 1500s. This is hearsay but
                        > someone I was talking with said they have read about log wood being
                        > pirated because it was so valuable. Odd thought eh?
                        >

                        Well, not so much. Logwood is, IIRC, really rich in concentration of
                        dyestuff. They sell it in both chunks half the size of my fist and in
                        *splinters.*

                        Margaret





                        ----------------------------------------------------
                        This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
                        Yahoo! Groups Links






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • kittencat3@aol.com
                        I haven t found it to be so - my cochineals have stayed fresh and bright, at least on silk. Logwood, OTOH, fades pretty badly on linen and cotton.... Sarah
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                          I haven't found it to be so - my cochineals have stayed fresh and bright, at least on silk. Logwood, OTOH, fades pretty badly on linen and cotton....

                          Sarah Davies

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Cynthia J Ley <cley@...>
                          To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 07:16:03 -0800
                          Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Colors (hot pink)


                          I remember reading an article in TI some time back written by Chris
                          Laning, who pointed out that cochineal was fugitive when exposed to
                          light. Perhaps this is what produced those lovely soft pinks we find in
                          Duc de Berry's books of hours.

                          Arlys

                          On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 06:37:35 EST kittencat3@... writes:
                          > Cochineal produces dark magenta on silk, and hot pink on linen. And
                          > there
                          > *were* hot pinks in period, at least in Italy - look at some of the
                          > manuscripts
                          > from the 15th centuries.
                          >
                          > Sarah Davies




                          ----------------------------------------------------
                          This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
                          Yahoo! Groups Links






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Chris Laning
                          ... Hi -- Um, actually, it s _orchil_ I was writing about, and true, it isn t very lightfast -- which is a shame, since it s a splendidly hot pink (derived
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                            Arlys wrote:
                            >I remember reading an article in TI some time back written by Chris
                            >Laning, who pointed out that cochineal was fugitive when exposed to
                            >light. Perhaps this is what produced those lovely soft pinks we find in
                            >Duc de Berry's books of hours.

                            Hi --

                            Um, actually, it's _orchil_ I was writing about, and true, it isn't very lightfast -- which is a shame, since it's a splendidly "hot" pink (derived from certain lichens) that is very well documented to several places in Europe during our period.

                            The article's online at <http://www.ravensgard.org/gerekr/Orchil.html> and includes a photo of a couple of my dye samples, if anyone wants to see it. Orchil-pink/purple is the only natural dye I've ever worked with that *clashes* with other natural-dye colors <g>.

                            Regards,
                            (Lady) Christian de Holacombe

                            ____________________________________________________________
                            0 Chris Laning
                            | <claning@...>
                            + Davis, California
                            ____________________________________________________________
                          • Cynthia J Ley
                            My apologies. It s been a while. Need to dig it out and refresh what I call a memory. Arlys
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                              My apologies. It's been a while. Need to dig it out and refresh what I
                              call a memory.

                              Arlys

                              > Hi --
                              >
                              > Um, actually, it's _orchil_ I was writing about, and true, it isn't
                              > very lightfast -- which is a shame, since it's a splendidly "hot"
                              > pink (derived from certain lichens) that is very well documented to
                              > several places in Europe during our period.
                              >
                              > The article's online at
                              > <http://www.ravensgard.org/gerekr/Orchil.html> and includes a photo
                              > of a couple of my dye samples, if anyone wants to see it.
                              > Orchil-pink/purple is the only natural dye I've ever worked with
                              > that *clashes* with other natural-dye colors <g>.
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              > (Lady) Christian de Holacombe
                              >
                              > ____________________________________________________________
                              > 0 Chris Laning
                              > | <claning@...>
                              > + Davis, California
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                            • kittencat3@aol.com
                              I completely agree with Lady Christian...orchil is terribly fugitive and I refuse to work with it because I either use or sell what I dye. It s lovely, but
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                                I completely agree with Lady Christian...orchil is terribly fugitive and I refuse to work with it because I either use or sell what I dye. It's lovely, but you can get similar shades from other dyes without having to worry about it bleaching in sunlight.

                                Sarah




                                Um, actually, it's _orchil_ I was writing about, and true, it isn't very
                                lightfast -- which is a shame, since it's a splendidly "hot" pink (derived from
                                certain lichens) that is very well documented to several places in Europe during
                                our period.


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • azilisarmor
                                ... Also, in Leonardo of Pisa s Liber Abaci (1202), one of his example problems (for single false position problems, IIRC) was about a merchant trading for
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 2, 2005
                                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "dilitaunt" <dilitaunt@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > Brazilwood is documented to Scotland in 1186 when a law was written
                                  > there. I would have to go and hunt down the reference but it had to
                                  > do with trying to improve the quality of cloth being produced in the
                                  > area at the time.

                                  Also, in Leonardo of Pisa's Liber Abaci (1202), one of his example
                                  problems (for single false position problems, IIRC) was about a
                                  merchant trading for Brazilin. Guess it was faily common.

                                  Deroch
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