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Am I Period Or Not

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  • Lee Green
    MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE SIGN ALL POSTS WITH YOUR NAME Am I Period Or Not is now COSTUMERATING.COM! All the features you loved in the original Am I Period Or Not
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 10, 2005
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      MODERATOR NOTE:
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    • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
      The only pre-Renaissance quilts I know of are the three 14th century wholecloth quilts in which the quilting forms pictures of scenes from the Tristan story -
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 14, 2005
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        The only pre-Renaissance quilts I know of are the
        three 14th century wholecloth quilts in which the
        quilting forms pictures of scenes from the Tristan
        story - do I have that much right? And the intricacy
        and quality of the work makes it reasonable (in my
        opinion) to assume that this sort of thing had
        probably been going on for a while, even minus extant
        examples.

        And there are references in 12th century and later
        French romances to what is often translated as quilts
        being used on beds.

        Are there any indications of quilts being done in
        patchwork/pieced or applique? Were applique or
        patchwork used in other clothing or household
        applications? (Giraldus Cambrensis tells us the Irish
        sewed small pieces of cloth together, but I think it
        was for clothing. And a French quilt is described as
        being like a checkerboard, but that could mean a woven
        check as opposed to pieced.) And is there any
        suggestions of quilts which were tied rather than
        quilted?

        And feather beds...were they simply a bag stuffed with
        feathers, much like a large pillow, or were they sewn
        in channels or boxes like modern feather comforters?

        Thank you for any information or references.

        Andrea




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      • Cynthia J Ley
        A friend of mine did a Kingdom A&S Championship entry on this very subject. She s also got rosaries, tiles, and all sorts of interesting stuff that she s
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 14, 2005
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          A friend of mine did a Kingdom A&S Championship entry on this very
          subject. She's also got rosaries, tiles, and all sorts of interesting
          stuff that she's worked on there. The URL is

          http://www.easystreet.com/~rafaella

          Arlys

          On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
          <huwydd@...> writes:
          >
          > The only pre-Renaissance quilts I know of are the
          > three 14th century wholecloth quilts in which the
          > quilting forms pictures of scenes from the Tristan
          > story - do I have that much right? And the intricacy
          > and quality of the work makes it reasonable (in my
          > opinion) to assume that this sort of thing had
          > probably been going on for a while, even minus extant
          > examples.
          >
          > And there are references in 12th century and later
          > French romances to what is often translated as quilts
          > being used on beds.
          >
          > Are there any indications of quilts being done in
          > patchwork/pieced or applique? Were applique or
          > patchwork used in other clothing or household
          > applications? (Giraldus Cambrensis tells us the Irish
          > sewed small pieces of cloth together, but I think it
          > was for clothing. And a French quilt is described as
          > being like a checkerboard, but that could mean a woven
          > check as opposed to pieced.) And is there any
          > suggestions of quilts which were tied rather than
          > quilted?
          >
          > And feather beds...were they simply a bag stuffed with
          > feathers, much like a large pillow, or were they sewn
          > in channels or boxes like modern feather comforters?
          >
          > Thank you for any information or references.
          >
          > Andrea
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Chris Laning
          Andrea wrote ----- ... Check out the Medieval Quilting Yahoo group -- http://medievalquilting@yahoogroups.com It s a small, but active, group and will probably
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 14, 2005
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            Andrea wrote -----
            > Are there any indications of quilts being done in
            > patchwork/pieced or applique? Were applique or
            > patchwork used in other clothing or household
            > applications? (Giraldus Cambrensis tells us the Irish
            > sewed small pieces of cloth together, but I think it
            > was for clothing. And a French quilt is described as
            > being like a checkerboard, but that could mean a woven
            > check as opposed to pieced.) And is there any
            > suggestions of quilts which were tied rather than
            > quilted?

            Check out the Medieval Quilting Yahoo group --
            http://medievalquilting@yahoogroups.com

            It's a small, but active, group and will probably give you lots more information than you ever thought possible :)

            But I can say briefly that "quilting" in our period is near-universally done with large solid swaths of cloth and as few seams as possible. Quilting, in this context, just means sewing through multiple layers of cloth and perhaps batting or stuffing of some kind.

            The idea that quilting has something to do with "patchwork" seems to be an idea that originated in the middle of the 19th century, with the tremendous popularity of patchwork quilts at the time (which use both techniques -- patchwork and quilting).

            So in our period you do, occasionally, find patchwork -- things made out of a number of different pieces of cloth sewed together, which may be different colors. You also find applique, for instance in heraldic copes and banners (one rather well-known banner is made of four patches -- two red, two green -- all of which have gold applique on them). But generally, neither the patchwork nor the applique is quilted. And in general, you _cannot_ assume that something made of patchwork or applique _necessarily_ has anything to do with quilting.

            Of course there are exceptions, such as the French bed cover "like a checkerboard" that you mention, which _may_ have been quilted. (Although then, as now, bed covers in general are occasionally called "quilts" even when they are not actually quilted.)

            But the point I'm trying to make is that you cannot make assumptions when reading period descriptions or looking at period illustrations. Concepts that are strongly linked today may have been completely separate back then. Something on a bed in a painting may _look_ like a modern quilt, but you really can't tell and shouldn't assume from a just the painted illustration that it necessarily was quilted. Likewise, you really can't take descriptions of "many pieces of cloth sewed together" and assume -- unless it's specifically stated -- that the pieces of cloth were different colors and intentionally arranged to make a decorative pattern. This could just as well have been something pieced from scraps of a single fabric for utilitarian reasons.

            As for tied "quilts", while we don't always have all the information on how pieces described in inventory were constructed, I'm certainly not aware of any early tied comforters. Certainly the technology was possible, but I don't know of any evidence that it was (or wasn't) done.

            Hope this helps --

            Christian de Holacombe

            ____________________________________________________________
            0 Chris Laning
            | <claning@...>
            + Davis, California
            ____________________________________________________________
          • bex_1014
            Hi: I m not getting through on that address, and can t find it in a search through yahoo - is there a better link? Rebecca
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 16, 2005
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              Hi:
              I'm not getting through on that address, and can't find it in a search
              through yahoo - is there a better link?
              Rebecca

              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Chris Laning <claning@i...> wrote:
              >
              > Check out the Medieval Quilting Yahoo group --
              > http://medievalquilting@yahoogroups.com
            • Lyle H. Gray
              ... Try http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/medievalquilting -- Lyle H. Gray gray@cs.umass.edu -- text only, please http://members.verizon.net/~vze3wwx7 -- Shared
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 17, 2005
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                On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, bex_1014 wrote:

                > Hi:
                > I'm not getting through on that address, and can't find it in a search
                > through yahoo - is there a better link?
                > Rebecca
                >
                > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Chris Laning <claning@i...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Check out the Medieval Quilting Yahoo group --
                > > http://medievalquilting@yahoogroups.com

                Try http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/medievalquilting

                --
                Lyle H. Gray
                gray@... -- text only, please
                http://members.verizon.net/~vze3wwx7
                --
                Shared knowledge is preserved knowledge.
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