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period punishments

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  • Tiffany Brown
    I m sure tere s a lot of stuff on the web about this, but I don;t want to wade through pages of stuff that is so poorly referenced that I can t tell if it is
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 10, 2005
      I'm sure tere's a lot of stuff on the web about this, but I don;t want
      to wade through pages of stuff that is so poorly referenced that I
      can't tell if it is based on real facts or not, so please bear with
      me, and help if you can.

      My friend wants to put annother friend in stocks and throw soft/rotten
      tomatoes at her as a fundraiser stunt. (she is quite willing and is
      deserving of some ridicule for not finishing a very small task within
      even close to the required timeline). He's got the safety angle
      covered fairly well, but would like to make this more of a demo to the
      public, so wants to be able to claim it was done in period, and even
      explain how/when/why to people.

      So, was the classic "stocks in the town square with villagers throwing
      fruit at them" punishment ever done in period? (anytime or place pre
      1600) Was it common? What other types of minor punishment might have
      been used, and for what scale of offence? How long, what kinds of
      location, equipement, etc were used? Specifics examples are nice. I
      think we are mostly focussing in punishments for minor infringements,
      rather than the type of stuff that carries a death penalty.

      I'd be grateful for any examples people could think of. I know this
      kind of topic just doesn't turn up in the literature of the period i
      study, although I'm sure it ends up in some rather dry legal records.

      Teffania
    • Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
      I ll see what I ve got in my stuff, but right off the bat, you ought to skip the tomatoes (grin). I would think you d more likely be throwing eggs and
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 10, 2005
        I'll see what I've got in my stuff, but right off the bat, you ought
        to skip the tomatoes (grin). I would think you'd more likely be
        throwing eggs and vegetable refuse (i.e. leaves & peelings).
        Probably also lots of animal waste, but I doubt you want to do that
        for your demo! I know the 'Wedding Feast at Bermondsey' shows a man
        in the stocks, the picture is c.1570's. I want to say a couple of
        Breughel's village fete type paintings show people in the stocks.
        The small village we lived in in England still had their medieval
        stockus in the church's fence, I saw a number like that in East
        Anglia. But anyway, I'll check what I've got, but it will most
        likely have a Scottish flavor...
        Cheers,
        Margaret Hepburn
        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Tiffany Brown <teffania@g...>
        wrote:
        > My friend wants to put annother friend in stocks and throw
        soft/rotten
        > tomatoes at her as a fundraiser stunt. (she is quite willing and
        is
        > deserving of some ridicule for not finishing a very small task
        within
        > even close to the required timeline). He's got the safety angle
        > covered fairly well, but would like to make this more of a demo to
        the
        > public, so wants to be able to claim it was done in period, and
        even
        > explain how/when/why to people.
      • Marc Carlson
        ... I think what you are looking for is pillory :) The term goes back to at least the 12th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillory
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 10, 2005
          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Tiffany Brown <teffania@g...> wrote:
          > I'm sure tere's a lot of stuff on the web about this, but I don;t want
          > to wade through pages of stuff that is so poorly referenced that I
          > can't tell if it is based on real facts or not, so please bear with
          > me, and help if you can.
          >
          > My friend wants to put annother friend in stocks ...

          I think what you are looking for is "pillory" :) The term goes back
          to at least the 12th century.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillory
          http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/9417/history.html

          Marc/Diarmaid
        • Cynthia J Ley
          um...tomatoes HURT!! my shire had a pillory for a while and used it as demos. we opted to get big appropriately colored sponges, cut them into the right
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 11, 2005
            um...tomatoes HURT!!

            my shire had a pillory for a while and used it as demos. we opted to get
            big appropriately colored sponges, cut them into the right shapes, and
            throw those. no one got hurt, the demo worked fine, and did i mention no
            one got hurt?

            you folks know how hard a throw needs to be, but some twinkiebrain may
            not, and inflict harm.


            arlys

            > My friend wants to put annother friend in stocks and throw
            > soft/rotten
            > tomatoes at her as a fundraiser stunt. (she is quite willing and is
            > deserving of some ridicule for not finishing a very small task
            > within
            > even close to the required timeline). He's got the safety angle
            > covered fairly well, but would like to make this more of a demo to
            > the
            > public, so wants to be able to claim it was done in period, and even
            > explain how/when/why to people.
          • Tiffany Brown
            Like I said, we hope we ve got safety covered. The tomatoes are being deliberately allowed to go soft and rotten, and will be tested for softness several
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 11, 2005
              Like I said, we hope we've got safety covered. The tomatoes are being
              deliberately allowed to go soft and rotten, and will be tested for
              softness several times before the day, allowing substiution of red
              sponges if necessary. We're not using eggs because some of the
              organisers are worried about eggshell shards. (I doubt this is a big
              probem, but better safe than sorry).
              Very non-period safety goggles will be worn (maybe we can hide them
              with a blindfold - would that be period?) and maybe a kidney belt and
              breast protection hidden under the dress. Having seen a few more
              pictures now, I'm wondering if her paticular set of stocks can be
              arranged so we put her feet in them, and allow her at least one hand
              free for self protection.

              Teffania


              On 9/12/05, Cynthia J Ley <cley@...> wrote:
              > um...tomatoes HURT!!
              >
              > my shire had a pillory for a while and used it as demos. we opted to get
              > big appropriately colored sponges, cut them into the right shapes, and
              > throw those. no one got hurt, the demo worked fine, and did i mention no
              > one got hurt?
              >
              > you folks know how hard a throw needs to be, but some twinkiebrain may
              > not, and inflict harm.
              >
            • Cynthia J Ley
              whatever armored fighters wear under their torso armor might be a good idea. also padding to protect her arms and legs. possibly a helmet to protect her face.
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 12, 2005
                whatever armored fighters wear under their torso armor might be a good
                idea. also padding to protect her arms and legs. possibly a helmet to
                protect her face.

                if she is unable to see, it would be a good idea for someone to be near
                her telling her what's going on. panic is bad. a publicity stunt is one
                thing, trauma quite another.

                who's going to do the flinging? sca'ers in the know or the uneducated
                public?

                arlys





                On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:18:14 +1000 Tiffany Brown <teffania@...>
                writes:
                > Like I said, we hope we've got safety covered. The tomatoes are
                > being
                > deliberately allowed to go soft and rotten, and will be tested for
                > softness several times before the day, allowing substiution of red
                > sponges if necessary. We're not using eggs because some of the
                > organisers are worried about eggshell shards. (I doubt this is a big
                > probem, but better safe than sorry).
                > Very non-period safety goggles will be worn (maybe we can hide them
                > with a blindfold - would that be period?) and maybe a kidney belt
                > and
                > breast protection hidden under the dress. Having seen a few more
                > pictures now, I'm wondering if her paticular set of stocks can be
                > arranged so we put her feet in them, and allow her at least one hand
                > free for self protection.
                >
                > Teffania
              • Sharon L. Krossa
                ... As already pointed out, _tomatoes_ (no matter how soft and rotten) are also not exactly likely to have been thrown at anyone in period Europe, given that
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 13, 2005
                  At 3:18 PM +1000 9/12/05, Tiffany Brown wrote:
                  >Like I said, we hope we've got safety covered. The tomatoes are being
                  >deliberately allowed to go soft and rotten, and will be tested for
                  >softness several times before the day, allowing substiution of red
                  >sponges if necessary. We're not using eggs because some of the
                  >organisers are worried about eggshell shards. (I doubt this is a big
                  >probem, but better safe than sorry).

                  As already pointed out, _tomatoes_ (no matter how soft and rotten)
                  are also not exactly likely to have been thrown at anyone in period
                  Europe, given that they are at best a newly discovered New World
                  fruit.

                  Also, although the question was asked (or at least implied), no one
                  has actually answered what evidence there is that people in the
                  stocks/pillory in period were pelted with rotten fruit/vegetables/etc.

                  Is there any such evidence? If so, what exactly is it and where can
                  it be found?

                  (Just because stocks/pillories existed and people were put in them in
                  period doesn't mean said people must have been pelted with objects,
                  too. The public shame of being in the stocks/pillory could have been
                  considered sufficient punishment.)

                  Affrick
                  --
                  Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
                  Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
                  Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/
                • Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
                  I went through a number of sites last night on period punishments & I have some quotes for you which I will post in a bit. The earliest one I could find was
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 14, 2005
                    I went through a number of sites last night on period punishments &
                    I have some quotes for you which I will post in a bit. The earliest
                    one I could find was about 1650'ish which clearly mentioned those in
                    the stocks or pillory being pelted . The missile of choice, at least
                    in the 17th through 19th century, appears to have been rotten eggs.

                    I would like to point out though, that a pillory and a stocks are
                    two different things. A stocks was for the legs and the person being
                    punished is generally either sitting on the ground or on a bench or
                    log specifically for the stocks. In the period depictions, quite
                    often at least one wrist was secured to something else. A pillory
                    was for the head and arms and was often set at an uncomfortable
                    height, so the person either had to stoop uncomfortably or so their
                    neck was stretched. Persons being pilloried quite often also had an
                    ear nailed to the pillory, and there are gruesome stories of people
                    ripping their own ears off in panic to get away from things being
                    thrown at them.

                    I will post the quotes & some links to pictures in a bit.

                    Cheers,
                    Margaret Hepburn
                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon L. Krossa" <skrossa-
                    ml@M...> wrote:
                    >
                    > As already pointed out, _tomatoes_ (no matter how soft and rotten)
                    > are also not exactly likely to have been thrown at anyone in
                    period
                    > Europe, given that they are at best a newly discovered New World
                    > fruit.
                    >
                    > Also, although the question was asked (or at least implied), no
                    one
                    > has actually answered what evidence there is that people in the
                    > stocks/pillory in period were pelted with rotten
                    fruit/vegetables/etc.
                    >
                    > Is there any such evidence? If so, what exactly is it and where
                    can
                    > it be found?
                    ..snippage...
                    > Affrick
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