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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Interesting hat

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  • Katherine Throckmorton
    ... It looks to me like all of the men with white headgear are wearing turbans. The man seated on the left is partially in shadow, but I think that the
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 5, 2005
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      > Respected friends:
      > ...Is the man seated on the left wearing a fur hat?
      > http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7000116.JPG

      It looks to me like all of the men with white headgear are wearing turbans. The man seated on the left is partially in shadow, but I think that the "furriness" on his turban is a poor rendering of the folds on a turban.

      -Katherine

      Every weekend, we gather hundreds of people together, none of whom have had enough sleep.
      -Robin's Unified Theory of SCA Dynamics


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    • wodeford
      ... turbans. The man seated on the left is partially in shadow, but I think that the furriness on his turban is a poor rendering of the folds on a turban.
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 5, 2005
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Katherine Throckmorton"
        <kthrockmorton@l...> wrote:
        > It looks to me like all of the men with white headgear are wearing
        turbans. The man seated on the left is partially in shadow, but I
        think that the "furriness" on his turban is a poor rendering of the
        folds on a turban.

        With respect, Katherine, I don't buy that. Every single garment in the
        painting with folds and wrinkles is rendered to show folds, drape and
        wrinkles. Why would the painter be unable to do the same for a turban
        in shadow, especially given the details of the shadowed saint's arm?

        Anybody know where this painting came from? What country? Who painted
        it? What saint is being arrested? The URL doesn't really give any
        clues.

        Jehanne de Wodeford
      • RON CARNEGIE
        My guess would be fur or thrummed wool. Ranald de Balinhard ... From: Marc Carlson To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 4:00 PM
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 5, 2005
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          My guess would be fur or thrummed wool.

          Ranald de Balinhard
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Marc Carlson
          To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 4:00 PM
          Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Interesting hat


          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Honour Horne-Jaruk
          <jarukcomp@s...> wrote:
          > (De-lurking)
          > Respected friends:
          > ...Is the man seated on the left wearing a fur hat?
          > http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7000116.JPG

          Could be. Whatever it is, it's sort of weird looking.

          Marc/Diarmaid





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        • kittencat3@aol.com
          Looks like sheepskin or fur to me. Either that, or someone *really* scared the heck out of him. ... Sarah Davies [Non-text portions of this message have been
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 5, 2005
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            Looks like sheepskin or fur to me. Either that, or someone *really* scared
            the heck out of him.

            :D

            Sarah Davies


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Marion McNealy
            wodeford wrote: Anybody know where this painting came from? What country? Who painted it? What saint is being arrested? The URL
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 5, 2005
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              wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
              <snipage>

              Anybody know where this painting came from? What country? Who painted
              it? What saint is being arrested? The URL doesn't really give any
              clues.

              Jehanne de Wodeford


              ------------------------------------------

              After doing a little searching in REALonline, I found it.

              Its

              Gefangenenbefreiung durch den Hl. Leonhard
              Dieses Bild: 000203

              Kunstwerk: Tafelmalerei-Holz ; Flügelaltar ; Oberösterreich
              Dokumentation: 1490 ; 1500 ; Kremsmünster ; Österreich ; Oberösterreich ; Stiftsgalerie
              http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7000116.JPG

              Translation

              The release of St. Leonhard, wing panel of an alter in Austria, documented to 1490-1500.

              In the catalog description for the man on the left, he is noted as having a fur hat. Fur hats were certainly allowed for all classes, but certain furs were restricted for upper classes only.

              There is no way to give a direct link to the picture record, but the picture number is 000203. Here's the link to a help guide I wrote for it that you can use to navigate to the picture record.

              http://www.curiousfrau.com/Tools/REALonline_help.htm

              -Marion

              www.curiousfrau.com



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • lilinah@earthlink.net
              ... A thrummed hat crossed my mind. -- Urtatim (that s err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 6, 2005
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                >...Is the man seated on the left wearing a fur hat?
                >http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7000116.JPG
                >
                >In service to both the Societies of which I am a member-
                > (Friend) Honour horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.
                > Alisond de Brebeuf, C.O.L. S.C.A.
                > -(AKA Una the wisewoman, or That Pict)

                A thrummed hat crossed my mind.
                --
                Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                the persona formerly known as Anahita
              • Lady_Lark_Azure
                ... Okay, I know fulling, I know felting. What is thrumming? Isabeau
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 6, 2005
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                  > A thrummed hat crossed my mind.

                  Okay, I know fulling, I know felting. What is thrumming?

                  Isabeau
                • RON CARNEGIE
                  Thrum is apparently left over bits of wool in the loom, I don t know I don t weave. A thrummed cap however, long worn by the mariner, is made by making a knit
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 6, 2005
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                    Thrum is apparently left over bits of wool in the loom, I don't know I don't weave. A thrummed cap however, long worn by the mariner, is made by making a knit hat, and looping the thrum through it. Sort of like the craft of rug making. Makes for a very warm cap. A search on Google will more likely than not show you thatit is still being done, but today the thrums tend to be worn on the inside!.

                    Ranald

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Lady_Lark_Azure
                    To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 4:46 PM
                    Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Interesting hat



                    > A thrummed hat crossed my mind.

                    Okay, I know fulling, I know felting. What is thrumming?

                    Isabeau




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                  • Lady_Lark_Azure
                    ... I don t weave. A thrummed cap however, long worn by the mariner, is made by making a knit hat, and looping the thrum through it. Sort of like the craft
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 7, 2005
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                      > Thrum is apparently left over bits of wool in the loom, I don't know
                      I don't weave. A thrummed cap however, long worn by the mariner, is
                      made by making a knit hat, and looping the thrum through it. Sort of
                      like the craft of rug making. Makes for a very warm cap. A search on
                      Google will more likely than not show you thatit is still being done,
                      but today the thrums tend to be worn on the inside!.
                      >
                      > Ranald

                      AAHHHHHH! So that's how Elias' cool funky hat was made!

                      Thanks.
                    • gedney@OPTONLINE.NET
                      ... Don t tell anyone, but Ranald had his thrummer before I did... Shhhh Capt Elias Dragonship Haven, East (Stratford, CT, USA) -Renaissance Geek of the Cyber
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 7, 2005
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                        > AAHHHHHH! So that's how Elias' cool funky hat was made!

                        Don't tell anyone, but Ranald had his thrummer before I did...

                        Shhhh

                        Capt Elias
                        Dragonship Haven, East
                        (Stratford, CT, USA)

                        -Renaissance Geek of the Cyber Seas

                        - Help! I am being pecked to death by the Ducks of Dilletanteism!
                        There are SO damn many more things I want to try in the SCA
                        than I can possibly have time for. It's killing me!!!

                        -------------------------------------------------------------
                        Upon the hempen tackle ship-boys climbing;
                        Hear the shrill whistle which doth order give
                        To sounds confused; behold the threaden sails,
                        Borne with the invisible and creeping wind,
                        Draw the huge bottoms through the furrow'd sea,
                        Breasting the lofty surge: O, do but think
                        You stand upon the ravage and behold
                        A city on the inconstant billows dancing;
                        For so appears this fleet majestical,
                        Holding due course to Harfleur.
                        - Shakespeare - Henry V, Act III, Prologue
                      • RON CARNEGIE
                        Not by much! If you less picky, or I more selective, it would be reversed! Ranald ... From: gedney@OPTONLINE.NET To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 7, 2005
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                          Not by much! If you less picky, or I more selective, it would be reversed!

                          Ranald
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: gedney@...
                          To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:50 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Interesting hat


                          > AAHHHHHH! So that's how Elias' cool funky hat was made!

                          Don't tell anyone, but Ranald had his thrummer before I did...

                          Shhhh

                          Capt Elias
                          Dragonship Haven, East
                          (Stratford, CT, USA)

                          -Renaissance Geek of the Cyber Seas

                          - Help! I am being pecked to death by the Ducks of Dilletanteism!
                          There are SO damn many more things I want to try in the SCA
                          than I can possibly have time for. It's killing me!!!

                          -------------------------------------------------------------
                          Upon the hempen tackle ship-boys climbing;
                          Hear the shrill whistle which doth order give
                          To sounds confused; behold the threaden sails,
                          Borne with the invisible and creeping wind,
                          Draw the huge bottoms through the furrow'd sea,
                          Breasting the lofty surge: O, do but think
                          You stand upon the ravage and behold
                          A city on the inconstant billows dancing;
                          For so appears this fleet majestical,
                          Holding due course to Harfleur.
                          - Shakespeare - Henry V, Act III, Prologue


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                          Free credit history Credit history score Credit history search


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                          a.. Visit your group "Authentic_SCA" on the web.

                          b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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                        • byvordhr
                          ... scared ... Felted? Could it not be felted or fulled? Saeunn
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 7, 2005
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                            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@a... wrote:
                            > Looks like sheepskin or fur to me. Either that, or someone *really*
                            scared
                            > the heck out of him.

                            Felted? Could it not be felted or fulled?

                            Saeunn
                          • Marion McNealy
                            Response posted below in line with the thread, as requested by the moderators, after the line ****. ... scared ... Felted? Could it not be felted or fulled?
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 7, 2005
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                              Response posted below in line with the thread, as requested by the moderators, after the line ****.

                              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@a... wrote:
                              > Looks like sheepskin or fur to me. Either that, or someone *really*
                              scared
                              > the heck out of him.

                              Felted? Could it not be felted or fulled?

                              Saeunn

                              ************************************************

                              Felting or fulling wouldn't give you the long hairs sticking up from the hat.

                              The archivists in Austria, who have access to the original artwork have labeled it as a fur hat, and as we know they did indeed HAVE fur hats from looking at the wardrobe inventories, I don't see why people don't just accept that its more than likely fur.

                              -Marion






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • byvordhr
                              ... the hat. ... likely fur. For one thing, because the image on the screen doesn t show any hairs sticking up. This is one of the shortcomings of web images.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 8, 2005
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                                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Marion McNealy <m_mc_nealy@y...>
                                wrote:

                                > Felting or fulling wouldn't give you the long hairs sticking up from
                                the hat.
                                >
                                > ... I don't see why people don't just accept that its more than
                                likely fur.

                                For one thing, because the image on the screen doesn't show any hairs
                                sticking up. This is one of the shortcomings of web images. Not all
                                the details of the original are visible, and if you can't see it, it
                                practically speaking, doesn't exist.

                                If hairs are visible, then they must be hairs.

                                Saeunn
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