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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Another award document question

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  • Amy Heilveil
    ... No, William, my logic is for the Kingdoms of the Middle and Northshield - the two kingdom where I have lived, those are the only kingdom to whose custom I
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 1, 2005
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      On 6/30/05, Mark Bush (personal account) <markbush@...> wrote:
      > A recent King of Atlantia, as a matter of personal policy, does not EVER
      > read (or have read) the text of an award in Court. It was he who awarded my
      > AoA. Does that mean that my AoA is not legitimate? According to your logic,
      > it implies that this is the case for my award and for all other awards given
      > during his reign.

      No, William, my logic is for the Kingdoms of the Middle and
      Northshield - the two kingdom where I have lived, those are the only
      kingdom to whose custom I can speak.

      Though I do agree with Robert that awards should be public and the
      King is taking away from the 'moment' of the person getting the award
      by not reading it into Court, as well as belittling the efforts of the
      artisans who donate time, materials, and effort to do documents for
      the awards.

      Despina
    • Terri Morgan
      ... In Atlantia, the award is considered valid at the time of the ceremony, with or without a scroll. True validity comes when the King and Queen list all
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 1, 2005
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        > A recent King of Atlantia, as a matter of
        > personal policy, does not EVER read (or
        > have read) the text of an award in Court.
        > It was he who awarded my AoA. Does that mean
        > that my AoA is not legitimate? According to
        > your logic, it implies that this is the case
        > for my award and for all other awards given
        > during his reign.
        > Wm of Glencoe

        In Atlantia, the award is considered "valid" at the time of the ceremony,
        with or without a scroll. True "validity" comes when the King and Queen list
        all of the awards they've given during their reign in the Acorn (Kingdom
        newsletter) ala "it isn't real until it's printed in the Acorn"... however,
        I know of at least 3 instances where a past set of Royalty have not been
        lucky in their account-keeping, or printing, and that scrap of paper is all
        the proof that the awardee had - which was used to ensure that their award
        was recorded in the OP. So in a way, you could consider your scroll or
        promissory a "receipt" proving that the action had been taken.

        Hrothny
        --
        Dame Hróðny Rognvaldsdottir, OP, OL
        Great Dark Horde, Barony of Marinus
        Misericordia Fortitudo Suprema Est
        nothingbutadame@...
      • Mark Bush (personal account)
        In may case, as is always the case with this Royal, I was called before the Crown in Court and there was a fair amount of pomp and circumstance including a
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 1, 2005
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          In may case, as is always the case with this Royal, I was called before the
          Crown in Court and there was a fair amount of pomp and circumstance
          including a recitation of my "accomplishments" (such as they are) and His
          becoming aware of them through a variety of sources before the AoA was
          announced. The herald began to read the text and was quickly and with some
          consternation told by the King, "n My Court, award texts are not read." It
          was a bit disconcerting to me, truth be told, and I felt bad for the herald
          being spanked so in public, but it WAS His Court and it is His prerogative
          to run it as He wishes.

          As one who deeply appreciates the attention to detail and the marvel of a
          well-crafted text or scroll design, I find it unfortunate that the beautiful
          work of the artisan might not be fully recognized and appreciated in cases
          such as these. As I will never have a reign of my own, not being a
          stick-jock, but a wire wiggler myself, I will leave it to Him to satisfy His
          wishes as long as he wears the Crown. After all, if my Royal Decree the
          Crown can proclaim chocolate and strawberries, or even Jelly Bellys "period"
          and the gift of favor for their reign, they can certainly decide that award
          texts are not read in Court. Who am I to object?

          Wm of Glencoe
          MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE SNIP YOUR POSTS TO INCLUDE ONLY THE RELEVANT BITS WHEN YOU POST thank you
        • Marc Carlson
          ... Exactly, which is why I prefaced my statements with In Ansteorra (I assume elsewhere as well, but who knows) [BTW, I not necessarily responsing to you,
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 1, 2005
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Davis" <bob@r...> wrote:
            > To which I reply:
            > It varies by Kingdom....

            Exactly, which is why I prefaced my statements with "In Ansteorra (I
            assume elsewhere as well, but who knows)" [BTW, I' not necessarily
            responsing to you, but to the person who's response you replied to.
            And thank you for including that in your recapitulation).

            I don't mind if people want to take offense at things I write, and
            disagree with me (I'm used to it, and goodness knows that the Society
            is big enough for different opinions). It would be nice if they
            actually -read- what was actually being said before making responses
            that have no bearing on what WAS said though (- I know, I know - not a
            reasonable request, I'm used to that too).

            Marc/Diarmaid
          • Aliskye
            In Caid, the final award scroll (as opposed to temporary ones that are often given out at the giving of an award (we re a backlog kingdom :) ) is considered
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 5, 2005
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              In Caid, the final award scroll (as opposed to temporary ones that are
              often given out at the giving of an award (we're a backlog kingdom :) )
              is considered alegal document as they are signed by the Crown and
              sealed and signed by the Principal Herald if they include armoury.

              regards,

              aliskye

              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Malmstrom" <dawn@w...>
              wrote:
              >
              > A question has recently arrised. Are award scrolls percieved as legal
              > documents and/or gifts from the Crown or are they or a nice "extra"
              > like a Laurel medallion/Knight's spurs?
              >
              > Just opening the question out to everyone.
              >
              > Donata Bonacorsi
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