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Re: Help! Please? re: Alcega corded farthingale

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  • m d b
    ... quite a ... make ... _lots_ of ... Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It s not in the translated section, there s no mention of the number of
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 12, 2005
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      > I think what you're doing wrong is trying to use rope or cord. I
      > believe Juan de Alcega was assuming that you would use something
      quite a
      > bit sturdier, like willow bents, for the hoops. It is possible to
      make
      > a fairly rigid rope-stiffened petticoat, but you need to have
      _lots_ of
      > channels, not just the (4? 5?) specified by Alcega.


      Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It's not in the
      translated section, there's no mention of the number of hoops
      required. As far as I know the 4-5 hoops is a modern choice for the
      main part. All the images of hoops I've seen and found texts for* use
      more than that. I managed to get 7 or 8 getting the hoops up as high
      as possible (to just below the hips) as I was going for the very
      rigid Spanish style, and images show the hoops going right up! I
      could have got more in, but was struggling with the materials as it
      was.

      The rope is only ever going to give a soft line, even if it's done as
      19thC cording was done (no gaps between each channel.) The buckling
      it as much a part of the technique as anything else, or so I've been
      told by people who have made starched and corded petticoats. I'm
      possibly going to be making a finely corded one to wear under my
      c1848 dress as it gives this softly rounded shape.

      For my farthingale (which is currently dismantled least I glare at it
      even more than it rightly deserves I used willow wands. And if you do
      decide on willow, go for ready made caning;) Seriously, it'll be much
      more even. Mine will be re-hooped with whalebone substitute seeing as
      I found more references to whalebone than anything else.

      To get the cone I use the Alcega pattern as is to make the test,
      which creates many puckers and folds simply not seen in the artwork
      I've looked at. So I took my cue from Alcega in terms of approximate
      shaping and draped the lining over the test to get a much more fitted
      cone. I suspect you aren't supposed to use the "patterns" as is, as
      many pieces simply do not match in the book;)

      So advice from over here is:
      If you want a soft support, slightly more dome shaped then cording
      will be fine, and your buckling is a natural effect.

      If you want a cone shaped support, either use Alcega as is and put
      tucks on the inside, as it really does help the skirt lay smoothly
      over the hoops.
      Or make a more fitted cone by tweaking Alcega to make a more
      documented type of support.

      michaela de bruce,
      Willemyne van Nymegen
      http://costumes.glittersweet.com


      *at some point I worked out how many hoops one could get from the
      measurements given in Corsets and Crinolines in various texts.
    • Adele de Maisieres
      ... OK, going with Drea Leeds article on the subject Alcega s pattern description and accompanying diagram included five casings plus one casing in the hem at
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 12, 2005
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        m d b wrote:

        >>I think what you're doing wrong is trying to use rope or cord. I
        >>believe Juan de Alcega was assuming that you would use something
        >>
        >>
        >quite a
        >
        >
        >>bit sturdier, like willow bents, for the hoops. It is possible to
        >>
        >>
        >make
        >
        >
        >>a fairly rigid rope-stiffened petticoat, but you need to have
        >>
        >>
        >_lots_ of
        >
        >
        >>channels, not just the (4? 5?) specified by Alcega.
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It's not in the
        >translated section, there's no mention of the number of hoops
        >required. As far as I know the 4-5 hoops is a modern choice for the
        >main part.
        >

        OK, going with Drea Leeds article on the subject "Alcega's pattern
        description and accompanying diagram included five casings plus one
        casing in the hem at the bottom." That's a total of 6, which is more
        than 4-5, but less that "lots".

        --
        Adele de Maisieres

        -----------------------------
        Quot homines, tot sententiae.
        -----------------------------
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