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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Thanks and more questsions WAS Alcega corded farthingale

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  • Katherine Throckmorton
    ... This is correct. It does give a slighly more bell than cone shaped look. This isn t a problem if you are going for a slightly lower class look, but if
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 6, 2005
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      Gillian wrote:
      >
      > If I'm correctly reading the directions at the URL below, this
      > farthingale is not shaped -- that is, the skirk is a tube, not a cone?
      > (Certainly would make it easier to get the cording tucks
      > parallel ...) Am I right on this?

      This is correct. It does give a slighly more bell than cone shaped look. This isn't a problem if you are going for a slightly lower class look, but if you want to replicate the really stiff, extreme cone farthingales I don't reccomend this pattern.
      >
      > How do you *transport* such a garment once it is stiffly starched?
      > Can you collapse it into one circle along the welts, as you can a
      > skirt with metal hoops?

      I haven't tried that, but it might work. If I need to store mine, I usually store it on a hanger in the closet. Although I can't speak about driving in the thing, riding in a stiffly starched corded petticoat is quite possible. Even starched heavily, the petticoat compacts pretty well.

      I do highly reccomend starching, as it reduces buckling a bit, and increases the skirt-holding-out-ability of the petticoat.

      -Katherine

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    • m d b
      ... quite a ... make ... _lots_ of ... Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It s not in the translated section, there s no mention of the number of
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 12, 2005
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        > I think what you're doing wrong is trying to use rope or cord. I
        > believe Juan de Alcega was assuming that you would use something
        quite a
        > bit sturdier, like willow bents, for the hoops. It is possible to
        make
        > a fairly rigid rope-stiffened petticoat, but you need to have
        _lots_ of
        > channels, not just the (4? 5?) specified by Alcega.


        Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It's not in the
        translated section, there's no mention of the number of hoops
        required. As far as I know the 4-5 hoops is a modern choice for the
        main part. All the images of hoops I've seen and found texts for* use
        more than that. I managed to get 7 or 8 getting the hoops up as high
        as possible (to just below the hips) as I was going for the very
        rigid Spanish style, and images show the hoops going right up! I
        could have got more in, but was struggling with the materials as it
        was.

        The rope is only ever going to give a soft line, even if it's done as
        19thC cording was done (no gaps between each channel.) The buckling
        it as much a part of the technique as anything else, or so I've been
        told by people who have made starched and corded petticoats. I'm
        possibly going to be making a finely corded one to wear under my
        c1848 dress as it gives this softly rounded shape.

        For my farthingale (which is currently dismantled least I glare at it
        even more than it rightly deserves I used willow wands. And if you do
        decide on willow, go for ready made caning;) Seriously, it'll be much
        more even. Mine will be re-hooped with whalebone substitute seeing as
        I found more references to whalebone than anything else.

        To get the cone I use the Alcega pattern as is to make the test,
        which creates many puckers and folds simply not seen in the artwork
        I've looked at. So I took my cue from Alcega in terms of approximate
        shaping and draped the lining over the test to get a much more fitted
        cone. I suspect you aren't supposed to use the "patterns" as is, as
        many pieces simply do not match in the book;)

        So advice from over here is:
        If you want a soft support, slightly more dome shaped then cording
        will be fine, and your buckling is a natural effect.

        If you want a cone shaped support, either use Alcega as is and put
        tucks on the inside, as it really does help the skirt lay smoothly
        over the hoops.
        Or make a more fitted cone by tweaking Alcega to make a more
        documented type of support.

        michaela de bruce,
        Willemyne van Nymegen
        http://costumes.glittersweet.com


        *at some point I worked out how many hoops one could get from the
        measurements given in Corsets and Crinolines in various texts.
      • Adele de Maisieres
        ... OK, going with Drea Leeds article on the subject Alcega s pattern description and accompanying diagram included five casings plus one casing in the hem at
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 12, 2005
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          m d b wrote:

          >>I think what you're doing wrong is trying to use rope or cord. I
          >>believe Juan de Alcega was assuming that you would use something
          >>
          >>
          >quite a
          >
          >
          >>bit sturdier, like willow bents, for the hoops. It is possible to
          >>
          >>
          >make
          >
          >
          >>a fairly rigid rope-stiffened petticoat, but you need to have
          >>
          >>
          >_lots_ of
          >
          >
          >>channels, not just the (4? 5?) specified by Alcega.
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It's not in the
          >translated section, there's no mention of the number of hoops
          >required. As far as I know the 4-5 hoops is a modern choice for the
          >main part.
          >

          OK, going with Drea Leeds article on the subject "Alcega's pattern
          description and accompanying diagram included five casings plus one
          casing in the hem at the bottom." That's a total of 6, which is more
          than 4-5, but less that "lots".

          --
          Adele de Maisieres

          -----------------------------
          Quot homines, tot sententiae.
          -----------------------------
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