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Thanks and more questsions WAS Alcega corded farthingale

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  • msgilliandurham
    My thanks for the input I ve received. More questions, for anyone with experience of the garment referenced below: If I m correctly reading the directions at
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 5, 2005
      My thanks for the input I've received. More questions, for anyone
      with experience of the garment referenced below:

      If I'm correctly reading the directions at the URL below, this
      farthingale is not shaped -- that is, the skirk is a tube, not a cone?
      (Certainly would make it easier to get the cording tucks
      parallel ...) Am I right on this?

      How do you *transport* such a garment once it is stiffly starched?
      Can you collapse it into one circle along the welts, as you can a
      skirt with metal hoops?

      Gillian (who has no expectations of being able to *drive* in this
      thing, but since I can't walk to events...) Durham

      > At 11:28 PM 5/31/2005, Gillian wrote:
      >
      > >Gillian wrote:
      > > > And the $#@*!!!!! hoops keep *buckling*!! Instead of being nice
      > > > oval hoops, they dip in every so often.
      >
      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Mary Taran <marytaran@a...>
      wrote:
      > I've never tried one, but I've seen some made by this
      > method: http://costume.dm.net/cordpett.html --don't forget to
      follow the
      > "Lisa's Tips" link within the page.
      >
      > Mary Taran
      >
      >
      > --
      > No virus found in this outgoing message.
      > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 5/30/2005
    • Adele de Maisieres
      ... The only period pattern for a farthingale I mnow of is Juan de Alcega s, and it is a cone. ... Yup, collapse it. And you could probably save yourself the
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 5, 2005
        msgilliandurham wrote:

        >If I'm correctly reading the directions at the URL below, this
        >farthingale is not shaped -- that is, the skirk is a tube, not a cone?
        >(Certainly would make it easier to get the cording tucks
        >parallel ...) Am I right on this?
        >
        >

        The only period pattern for a farthingale I mnow of is Juan de Alcega's,
        and it is a cone.

        >How do you *transport* such a garment once it is stiffly starched?
        >Can you collapse it into one circle along the welts, as you can a
        >skirt with metal hoops?
        >
        >
        Yup, collapse it. And you could probably save yourself the trouble of
        starching it, too.

        Adele d'M
      • Katherine Throckmorton
        ... This is correct. It does give a slighly more bell than cone shaped look. This isn t a problem if you are going for a slightly lower class look, but if
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 6, 2005
          Gillian wrote:
          >
          > If I'm correctly reading the directions at the URL below, this
          > farthingale is not shaped -- that is, the skirk is a tube, not a cone?
          > (Certainly would make it easier to get the cording tucks
          > parallel ...) Am I right on this?

          This is correct. It does give a slighly more bell than cone shaped look. This isn't a problem if you are going for a slightly lower class look, but if you want to replicate the really stiff, extreme cone farthingales I don't reccomend this pattern.
          >
          > How do you *transport* such a garment once it is stiffly starched?
          > Can you collapse it into one circle along the welts, as you can a
          > skirt with metal hoops?

          I haven't tried that, but it might work. If I need to store mine, I usually store it on a hanger in the closet. Although I can't speak about driving in the thing, riding in a stiffly starched corded petticoat is quite possible. Even starched heavily, the petticoat compacts pretty well.

          I do highly reccomend starching, as it reduces buckling a bit, and increases the skirt-holding-out-ability of the petticoat.

          -Katherine

          --
          _______________________________________________
          NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once.
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        • m d b
          ... quite a ... make ... _lots_ of ... Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It s not in the translated section, there s no mention of the number of
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 12, 2005
            > I think what you're doing wrong is trying to use rope or cord. I
            > believe Juan de Alcega was assuming that you would use something
            quite a
            > bit sturdier, like willow bents, for the hoops. It is possible to
            make
            > a fairly rigid rope-stiffened petticoat, but you need to have
            _lots_ of
            > channels, not just the (4? 5?) specified by Alcega.


            Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It's not in the
            translated section, there's no mention of the number of hoops
            required. As far as I know the 4-5 hoops is a modern choice for the
            main part. All the images of hoops I've seen and found texts for* use
            more than that. I managed to get 7 or 8 getting the hoops up as high
            as possible (to just below the hips) as I was going for the very
            rigid Spanish style, and images show the hoops going right up! I
            could have got more in, but was struggling with the materials as it
            was.

            The rope is only ever going to give a soft line, even if it's done as
            19thC cording was done (no gaps between each channel.) The buckling
            it as much a part of the technique as anything else, or so I've been
            told by people who have made starched and corded petticoats. I'm
            possibly going to be making a finely corded one to wear under my
            c1848 dress as it gives this softly rounded shape.

            For my farthingale (which is currently dismantled least I glare at it
            even more than it rightly deserves I used willow wands. And if you do
            decide on willow, go for ready made caning;) Seriously, it'll be much
            more even. Mine will be re-hooped with whalebone substitute seeing as
            I found more references to whalebone than anything else.

            To get the cone I use the Alcega pattern as is to make the test,
            which creates many puckers and folds simply not seen in the artwork
            I've looked at. So I took my cue from Alcega in terms of approximate
            shaping and draped the lining over the test to get a much more fitted
            cone. I suspect you aren't supposed to use the "patterns" as is, as
            many pieces simply do not match in the book;)

            So advice from over here is:
            If you want a soft support, slightly more dome shaped then cording
            will be fine, and your buckling is a natural effect.

            If you want a cone shaped support, either use Alcega as is and put
            tucks on the inside, as it really does help the skirt lay smoothly
            over the hoops.
            Or make a more fitted cone by tweaking Alcega to make a more
            documented type of support.

            michaela de bruce,
            Willemyne van Nymegen
            http://costumes.glittersweet.com


            *at some point I worked out how many hoops one could get from the
            measurements given in Corsets and Crinolines in various texts.
          • Adele de Maisieres
            ... OK, going with Drea Leeds article on the subject Alcega s pattern description and accompanying diagram included five casings plus one casing in the hem at
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 12, 2005
              m d b wrote:

              >>I think what you're doing wrong is trying to use rope or cord. I
              >>believe Juan de Alcega was assuming that you would use something
              >>
              >>
              >quite a
              >
              >
              >>bit sturdier, like willow bents, for the hoops. It is possible to
              >>
              >>
              >make
              >
              >
              >>a fairly rigid rope-stiffened petticoat, but you need to have
              >>
              >>
              >_lots_ of
              >
              >
              >>channels, not just the (4? 5?) specified by Alcega.
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It's not in the
              >translated section, there's no mention of the number of hoops
              >required. As far as I know the 4-5 hoops is a modern choice for the
              >main part.
              >

              OK, going with Drea Leeds article on the subject "Alcega's pattern
              description and accompanying diagram included five casings plus one
              casing in the hem at the bottom." That's a total of 6, which is more
              than 4-5, but less that "lots".

              --
              Adele de Maisieres

              -----------------------------
              Quot homines, tot sententiae.
              -----------------------------
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