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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Help! Please? re: Alcega corded farthingale

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  • Mary Taran
    ... I ve never tried one, but I ve seen some made by this method: http://costume.dm.net/cordpett.html --don t forget to follow the Lisa s Tips link within
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 1, 2005
      At 11:28 PM 5/31/2005, you wrote:

      >Gillian wrote:
      > >
      > > I'm using muslin for the fabric. I've tried using sisal rope for the
      > > cording, and am now using a double strand of 12/16" upholstery
      > > cording.
      > > And the $#@*!!!!! hoops keep *buckling*!! Instead of being nice oval
      > > hoops, they dip in every so often.


      I've never tried one, but I've seen some made by this
      method: http://costume.dm.net/cordpett.html --don't forget to follow the
      "Lisa's Tips" link within the page.

      Mary Taran


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    • msgilliandurham
      My thanks for the input I ve received. More questions, for anyone with experience of the garment referenced below: If I m correctly reading the directions at
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 5, 2005
        My thanks for the input I've received. More questions, for anyone
        with experience of the garment referenced below:

        If I'm correctly reading the directions at the URL below, this
        farthingale is not shaped -- that is, the skirk is a tube, not a cone?
        (Certainly would make it easier to get the cording tucks
        parallel ...) Am I right on this?

        How do you *transport* such a garment once it is stiffly starched?
        Can you collapse it into one circle along the welts, as you can a
        skirt with metal hoops?

        Gillian (who has no expectations of being able to *drive* in this
        thing, but since I can't walk to events...) Durham

        > At 11:28 PM 5/31/2005, Gillian wrote:
        >
        > >Gillian wrote:
        > > > And the $#@*!!!!! hoops keep *buckling*!! Instead of being nice
        > > > oval hoops, they dip in every so often.
        >
        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Mary Taran <marytaran@a...>
        wrote:
        > I've never tried one, but I've seen some made by this
        > method: http://costume.dm.net/cordpett.html --don't forget to
        follow the
        > "Lisa's Tips" link within the page.
        >
        > Mary Taran
        >
        >
        > --
        > No virus found in this outgoing message.
        > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
        > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 5/30/2005
      • Adele de Maisieres
        ... The only period pattern for a farthingale I mnow of is Juan de Alcega s, and it is a cone. ... Yup, collapse it. And you could probably save yourself the
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 5, 2005
          msgilliandurham wrote:

          >If I'm correctly reading the directions at the URL below, this
          >farthingale is not shaped -- that is, the skirk is a tube, not a cone?
          >(Certainly would make it easier to get the cording tucks
          >parallel ...) Am I right on this?
          >
          >

          The only period pattern for a farthingale I mnow of is Juan de Alcega's,
          and it is a cone.

          >How do you *transport* such a garment once it is stiffly starched?
          >Can you collapse it into one circle along the welts, as you can a
          >skirt with metal hoops?
          >
          >
          Yup, collapse it. And you could probably save yourself the trouble of
          starching it, too.

          Adele d'M
        • Katherine Throckmorton
          ... This is correct. It does give a slighly more bell than cone shaped look. This isn t a problem if you are going for a slightly lower class look, but if
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 6, 2005
            Gillian wrote:
            >
            > If I'm correctly reading the directions at the URL below, this
            > farthingale is not shaped -- that is, the skirk is a tube, not a cone?
            > (Certainly would make it easier to get the cording tucks
            > parallel ...) Am I right on this?

            This is correct. It does give a slighly more bell than cone shaped look. This isn't a problem if you are going for a slightly lower class look, but if you want to replicate the really stiff, extreme cone farthingales I don't reccomend this pattern.
            >
            > How do you *transport* such a garment once it is stiffly starched?
            > Can you collapse it into one circle along the welts, as you can a
            > skirt with metal hoops?

            I haven't tried that, but it might work. If I need to store mine, I usually store it on a hanger in the closet. Although I can't speak about driving in the thing, riding in a stiffly starched corded petticoat is quite possible. Even starched heavily, the petticoat compacts pretty well.

            I do highly reccomend starching, as it reduces buckling a bit, and increases the skirt-holding-out-ability of the petticoat.

            -Katherine

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          • m d b
            ... quite a ... make ... _lots_ of ... Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It s not in the translated section, there s no mention of the number of
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 12, 2005
              > I think what you're doing wrong is trying to use rope or cord. I
              > believe Juan de Alcega was assuming that you would use something
              quite a
              > bit sturdier, like willow bents, for the hoops. It is possible to
              make
              > a fairly rigid rope-stiffened petticoat, but you need to have
              _lots_ of
              > channels, not just the (4? 5?) specified by Alcega.


              Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It's not in the
              translated section, there's no mention of the number of hoops
              required. As far as I know the 4-5 hoops is a modern choice for the
              main part. All the images of hoops I've seen and found texts for* use
              more than that. I managed to get 7 or 8 getting the hoops up as high
              as possible (to just below the hips) as I was going for the very
              rigid Spanish style, and images show the hoops going right up! I
              could have got more in, but was struggling with the materials as it
              was.

              The rope is only ever going to give a soft line, even if it's done as
              19thC cording was done (no gaps between each channel.) The buckling
              it as much a part of the technique as anything else, or so I've been
              told by people who have made starched and corded petticoats. I'm
              possibly going to be making a finely corded one to wear under my
              c1848 dress as it gives this softly rounded shape.

              For my farthingale (which is currently dismantled least I glare at it
              even more than it rightly deserves I used willow wands. And if you do
              decide on willow, go for ready made caning;) Seriously, it'll be much
              more even. Mine will be re-hooped with whalebone substitute seeing as
              I found more references to whalebone than anything else.

              To get the cone I use the Alcega pattern as is to make the test,
              which creates many puckers and folds simply not seen in the artwork
              I've looked at. So I took my cue from Alcega in terms of approximate
              shaping and draped the lining over the test to get a much more fitted
              cone. I suspect you aren't supposed to use the "patterns" as is, as
              many pieces simply do not match in the book;)

              So advice from over here is:
              If you want a soft support, slightly more dome shaped then cording
              will be fine, and your buckling is a natural effect.

              If you want a cone shaped support, either use Alcega as is and put
              tucks on the inside, as it really does help the skirt lay smoothly
              over the hoops.
              Or make a more fitted cone by tweaking Alcega to make a more
              documented type of support.

              michaela de bruce,
              Willemyne van Nymegen
              http://costumes.glittersweet.com


              *at some point I worked out how many hoops one could get from the
              measurements given in Corsets and Crinolines in various texts.
            • Adele de Maisieres
              ... OK, going with Drea Leeds article on the subject Alcega s pattern description and accompanying diagram included five casings plus one casing in the hem at
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 12, 2005
                m d b wrote:

                >>I think what you're doing wrong is trying to use rope or cord. I
                >>believe Juan de Alcega was assuming that you would use something
                >>
                >>
                >quite a
                >
                >
                >>bit sturdier, like willow bents, for the hoops. It is possible to
                >>
                >>
                >make
                >
                >
                >>a fairly rigid rope-stiffened petticoat, but you need to have
                >>
                >>
                >_lots_ of
                >
                >
                >>channels, not just the (4? 5?) specified by Alcega.
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >Where in Alcega is the 4-5 hoops mentioned? It's not in the
                >translated section, there's no mention of the number of hoops
                >required. As far as I know the 4-5 hoops is a modern choice for the
                >main part.
                >

                OK, going with Drea Leeds article on the subject "Alcega's pattern
                description and accompanying diagram included five casings plus one
                casing in the hem at the bottom." That's a total of 6, which is more
                than 4-5, but less that "lots".

                --
                Adele de Maisieres

                -----------------------------
                Quot homines, tot sententiae.
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