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Re: [Authentic_SCA] The problem with "saffron"

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  • Hasoferet@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/28/2005 9:45:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Trader Joe s (a California chain I would probably pine away and wither without), sells
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 29, 2005
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      In a message dated 4/28/2005 9:45:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
      jeffrey.heilveil@... writes:


      > If one haunts Asian groceries you can find "spanish saffron" for $3/oz.
      > It is NOT safflower, but is indeed crocus stamens, of the same species as
      > the "true saffron" provider.

      Trader Joe's (a California chain I would probably pine away and wither
      without), sells saffron at about four bucks for a little jar, can't find mine now,
      so not sure of the weight. I don't cook with saffron much, so one of these
      lasts me ages. My old-neighborhood yuppie food mart sold it for about the same
      prices. I recall buying a couple ounces back when I was in grade school for a
      fabric-dying project.

      Raquel

      Raquel
      _______________________________________________________
      Kamatz katan le'olam!


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • eiremyst
      Personally, I have been using the saffron that comes in 1 ounce tins from Indian markets -- a decent dye and taste. However, if you are looking for smaller
      Message 2 of 29 , May 1, 2005
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        Personally, I have been using the saffron that comes in 1 ounce tins
        from Indian markets -- a decent dye and taste. However, if you are
        looking for smaller amounts, have noticed that Trader Joes in
        Emeryville, CA is carrying 1 gram glass bottles of saffron from
        around
        2 dollars.
      • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
        Whew! I now know more about saffron than was ever dreamt of in my philosophy. But no one answered why Elidyr s Little People were so fond of it, and I just
        Message 3 of 29 , May 6, 2005
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          Whew! I now know more about saffron than was ever
          dreamt of in my philosophy. But no one answered why
          Elidyr's Little People were so fond of it, and I just
          stumbled across a plausible answer myself....According
          to the Physicians of Myddvai (South Wales, 13th
          century), "If you would be at all times merry, eat
          saffron in meat or drink, and you will never be sad;
          but beware of eating over much, lest you should die of
          excessive joy." So if the Folk spent all their time
          in feasting, dancing, and merry-making, the saffron
          fits right would be a big help.

          Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with milk
          and saffron?

          Andrea


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        • jeffrey.heilveil@ndsu.edu
          ... From what time period? Darioles are custard pies that are done with saffron. But if I recall correctly, they are 13th - 15th (somewhere in there. I can t
          Message 4 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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            > Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with milk
            > and saffron?
            >
            > Andrea

            From what time period? Darioles are custard pies that are done with saffron.
            But if I recall correctly, they are 13th - 15th (somewhere in there. I
            can't remember this morning, it's been a long day already) English.

            -----------------------------------------------------------
            Jeffrey S. Heilveil, Ph.D.
            Postdoctoral Fellow
            Department of Biological Sciences
            North Dakota State University
            Stevens Hall
            Fargo, ND 58105
            jeffrey.heilveil@...
          • glaukopisathene
            ... Oooh! I have a really tasty one that I just tried last week. From an anonymous Tuscan cookbook, late 14th or early 15th c: Del farro di spelta. Togli il
            Message 5 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
              <huwydd@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with milk
              > and saffron?
              >
              > Andrea

              Oooh! I have a really tasty one that I just tried last week. From an
              anonymous Tuscan cookbook, late 14th or early 15th c:

              Del farro di spelta.
              Togli il farro de la spelta monda e rotta, e fallo bullire un poco; e
              gittata via quella acqua lava il detto farro molto bene e ritornalo a
              cocere con latte di capra o di pecora, ovvero d'amandole, fino che sia
              ben cotto. Trita il cascio fresco e mestalo con albume d'ova e mettilo
              nel detto farro bogliente, e bolla un poco. E puoi mettervi carne di
              galline o di polli, a modo di blanchemangieri; e di sopra metti del
              grasso del porco; e se 'l vuoli fare giallo, coloralo di zaffarano e
              tuorla d'ova, e ponvi del zuccaro.

              Spelt grain.
              Take cracked spelt, picked over, and boil it a little; and with the
              water thrown away wash said spelt very well and put it back to cook
              with goat's or sheep's milk, or almond milk instead, until it is well
              cooked. Mince fresh cheese and mix it with egg whites and put it in
              said farro as it boils, and boil it a little. And then put in hen or
              chicken meat, like a blancmange; and put pork fat on top of it; and if
              you want to make it yellow, color it with saffron and egg yolks, and
              add sugar.

              I used spelt, but whole wheat berries or other grains should work too.
              I parboiled them in water, then finished cooking it in goat's milk,
              with saffron, added a beaten egg (whole, to get the color from the
              yolk) and some farmers' cheese just at the point when the milk was
              nearly all absorbed, let it heat through, and ate it very hot with
              sugar on top. It was yummy, but not as good once it got cold.

              Buon appetito!


              Vittoria
            • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
              ... This does sound yummy. I ll have to try it. I should have been more specific, though, about what I was looking for.... In the late 12th century, Gerald of
              Message 6 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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                --- glaukopisathene <phoenissa@...> wrote:
                > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Andrea Huwydd
                > Lycsenbwrg
                > <huwydd@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with
                > milk
                > > and saffron?
                > >
                > > Andrea
                >
                > Oooh! I have a really tasty one that I just tried
                > last week.

                This does sound yummy. I'll have to try it.

                I should have been more specific, though, about what
                I was looking for.... In the late 12th century,
                Gerald of Wales wrote down what he was told by a
                priest who used to visit the Little People as a boy:
                "They never ate meat or fish. They lived on various
                milk dishes, made up into junkets flavoured with
                saffron."

                Now, if they didn't eat meat, I can't see them making
                an actual junket, which is coagulated with rennet, so
                I interpret that as simply some sort of pudding or
                cheese-type dish.

                Andrea



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              • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
                ... 12th century Wales. Given the dearth of period Welsh cookbooks, however, the approved method seems to be to pick up references to whatever food one can in
                Message 7 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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                  --- jeffrey.heilveil@... wrote:
                  >
                  > > Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with
                  > milk
                  > > and saffron?
                  > >
                  > > Andrea
                  >
                  > From what time period?

                  12th century Wales. Given the dearth of period Welsh
                  cookbooks, however, the approved method seems to be to
                  pick up references to whatever food one can in the
                  literature, look for the recipes closest in
                  chronology and geography which fit the parameters
                  given, and extrapolate like mad. So 13th-15th century
                  English would be right on target!

                  Darioles are custard pies
                  > that are done with saffron.
                  > But if I recall correctly, they are 13th - 15th
                  > (somewhere in there. I
                  > can't remember this morning, it's been a long day
                  > already) English.

                  A google search for "darioles" yielded a number of
                  hits, all in French (which I will start learning after
                  I'm reasonably competent in Middle Welsh and Latin).
                  However, "daryoles" netted me a number of recipes,
                  some version of which should work quite nicely. Thaks
                  for the tip.

                  Given that the Welsh did not have "bread", that is,
                  wheat bread (English/French commentators did not feel
                  that flat oakcakes qualified) the Little People would
                  most likely have made a crustless custard. Did they
                  have eggs? Elidyr doesn't mention any sort of
                  domestic fowl, but I suppose one could postulate
                  either wild bird eggs or eggs "borrowed" from their
                  neighbors.

                  Andrea



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                • Heather Rose Jones
                  ... It would probably be worthwhile to discover what the original Latin term was that is being translated as junket . It will give you a more accurate
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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                    At 10:53 AM -0700 5/9/05, Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg wrote:

                    > I should have been more specific, though, about what
                    >I was looking for.... In the late 12th century,
                    >Gerald of Wales wrote down what he was told by a
                    >priest who used to visit the Little People as a boy:
                    >"They never ate meat or fish. They lived on various
                    >milk dishes, made up into junkets flavoured with
                    >saffron."
                    >
                    >Now, if they didn't eat meat, I can't see them making
                    >an actual junket, which is coagulated with rennet, so
                    >I interpret that as simply some sort of pudding or
                    >cheese-type dish.

                    It would probably be worthwhile to discover what the original Latin
                    term was that is being translated as "junket". It will give you a
                    more accurate starting point for your extrapolations. (If I knew,
                    I'd tell you, but I haven't yet managed to track down my own copy of
                    the original text of Gerald's works.)

                    Tangwystyl
                    --
                    --
                    Heather Rose Jones
                    heather.jones@...
                  • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
                    ... Good point. Meanwhile, though, since another translation renders the phrase made up into messes with saffron , I suspect the term is not all that
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 19, 2005
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                      --- Heather Rose Jones <heather.jones@...>
                      wrote:


                      >
                      > It would probably be worthwhile to discover what the
                      > original Latin
                      > term was that is being translated as "junket".

                      Good point. Meanwhile, though, since another
                      translation renders the phrase "made up into messes
                      with saffron", I suspect the term is not all that
                      specific.

                      Andrea

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