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Re: [Authentic_SCA] The problem with "saffron"

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  • Hasoferet@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/28/2005 9:45:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Trader Joe s (a California chain I would probably pine away and wither without), sells
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 29, 2005
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      In a message dated 4/28/2005 9:45:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
      jeffrey.heilveil@... writes:


      > If one haunts Asian groceries you can find "spanish saffron" for $3/oz.
      > It is NOT safflower, but is indeed crocus stamens, of the same species as
      > the "true saffron" provider.

      Trader Joe's (a California chain I would probably pine away and wither
      without), sells saffron at about four bucks for a little jar, can't find mine now,
      so not sure of the weight. I don't cook with saffron much, so one of these
      lasts me ages. My old-neighborhood yuppie food mart sold it for about the same
      prices. I recall buying a couple ounces back when I was in grade school for a
      fabric-dying project.

      Raquel

      Raquel
      _______________________________________________________
      Kamatz katan le'olam!


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ragnhildr/Adrienne
      I can also recommend San Francisco Herb (sfherb.com). 1 gram of saffron is $2.05, and an ounce is $28.60. Of course, there is a minimum order, but I never
      Message 2 of 29 , May 1, 2005
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        I can also recommend San Francisco Herb (sfherb.com). 1 gram of
        saffron is $2.05, and an ounce is $28.60.

        Of course, there is a minimum order, but I never have trouble filling
        out that $30.

        Ragnhildr


        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Lady_Lark_Azure"
        <jenniferanne21@n...> wrote:

        > Have you ever tried Penzeys? (penzeys.com) I've never had any
        > complaints with their quality and they have a great range of stuff.
        >
        > Isabeau
      • eiremyst
        Personally, I have been using the saffron that comes in 1 ounce tins from Indian markets -- a decent dye and taste. However, if you are looking for smaller
        Message 3 of 29 , May 1, 2005
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          Personally, I have been using the saffron that comes in 1 ounce tins
          from Indian markets -- a decent dye and taste. However, if you are
          looking for smaller amounts, have noticed that Trader Joes in
          Emeryville, CA is carrying 1 gram glass bottles of saffron from
          around
          2 dollars.
        • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
          Whew! I now know more about saffron than was ever dreamt of in my philosophy. But no one answered why Elidyr s Little People were so fond of it, and I just
          Message 4 of 29 , May 6, 2005
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            Whew! I now know more about saffron than was ever
            dreamt of in my philosophy. But no one answered why
            Elidyr's Little People were so fond of it, and I just
            stumbled across a plausible answer myself....According
            to the Physicians of Myddvai (South Wales, 13th
            century), "If you would be at all times merry, eat
            saffron in meat or drink, and you will never be sad;
            but beware of eating over much, lest you should die of
            excessive joy." So if the Folk spent all their time
            in feasting, dancing, and merry-making, the saffron
            fits right would be a big help.

            Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with milk
            and saffron?

            Andrea


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          • jeffrey.heilveil@ndsu.edu
            ... From what time period? Darioles are custard pies that are done with saffron. But if I recall correctly, they are 13th - 15th (somewhere in there. I can t
            Message 5 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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              > Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with milk
              > and saffron?
              >
              > Andrea

              From what time period? Darioles are custard pies that are done with saffron.
              But if I recall correctly, they are 13th - 15th (somewhere in there. I
              can't remember this morning, it's been a long day already) English.

              -----------------------------------------------------------
              Jeffrey S. Heilveil, Ph.D.
              Postdoctoral Fellow
              Department of Biological Sciences
              North Dakota State University
              Stevens Hall
              Fargo, ND 58105
              jeffrey.heilveil@...
            • glaukopisathene
              ... Oooh! I have a really tasty one that I just tried last week. From an anonymous Tuscan cookbook, late 14th or early 15th c: Del farro di spelta. Togli il
              Message 6 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
                <huwydd@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with milk
                > and saffron?
                >
                > Andrea

                Oooh! I have a really tasty one that I just tried last week. From an
                anonymous Tuscan cookbook, late 14th or early 15th c:

                Del farro di spelta.
                Togli il farro de la spelta monda e rotta, e fallo bullire un poco; e
                gittata via quella acqua lava il detto farro molto bene e ritornalo a
                cocere con latte di capra o di pecora, ovvero d'amandole, fino che sia
                ben cotto. Trita il cascio fresco e mestalo con albume d'ova e mettilo
                nel detto farro bogliente, e bolla un poco. E puoi mettervi carne di
                galline o di polli, a modo di blanchemangieri; e di sopra metti del
                grasso del porco; e se 'l vuoli fare giallo, coloralo di zaffarano e
                tuorla d'ova, e ponvi del zuccaro.

                Spelt grain.
                Take cracked spelt, picked over, and boil it a little; and with the
                water thrown away wash said spelt very well and put it back to cook
                with goat's or sheep's milk, or almond milk instead, until it is well
                cooked. Mince fresh cheese and mix it with egg whites and put it in
                said farro as it boils, and boil it a little. And then put in hen or
                chicken meat, like a blancmange; and put pork fat on top of it; and if
                you want to make it yellow, color it with saffron and egg yolks, and
                add sugar.

                I used spelt, but whole wheat berries or other grains should work too.
                I parboiled them in water, then finished cooking it in goat's milk,
                with saffron, added a beaten egg (whole, to get the color from the
                yolk) and some farmers' cheese just at the point when the milk was
                nearly all absorbed, let it heat through, and ate it very hot with
                sugar on top. It was yummy, but not as good once it got cold.

                Buon appetito!


                Vittoria
              • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
                ... This does sound yummy. I ll have to try it. I should have been more specific, though, about what I was looking for.... In the late 12th century, Gerald of
                Message 7 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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                  --- glaukopisathene <phoenissa@...> wrote:
                  > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Andrea Huwydd
                  > Lycsenbwrg
                  > <huwydd@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with
                  > milk
                  > > and saffron?
                  > >
                  > > Andrea
                  >
                  > Oooh! I have a really tasty one that I just tried
                  > last week.

                  This does sound yummy. I'll have to try it.

                  I should have been more specific, though, about what
                  I was looking for.... In the late 12th century,
                  Gerald of Wales wrote down what he was told by a
                  priest who used to visit the Little People as a boy:
                  "They never ate meat or fish. They lived on various
                  milk dishes, made up into junkets flavoured with
                  saffron."

                  Now, if they didn't eat meat, I can't see them making
                  an actual junket, which is coagulated with rennet, so
                  I interpret that as simply some sort of pudding or
                  cheese-type dish.

                  Andrea



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                • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
                  ... 12th century Wales. Given the dearth of period Welsh cookbooks, however, the approved method seems to be to pick up references to whatever food one can in
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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                    --- jeffrey.heilveil@... wrote:
                    >
                    > > Does anyone have a recipe for a dish made with
                    > milk
                    > > and saffron?
                    > >
                    > > Andrea
                    >
                    > From what time period?

                    12th century Wales. Given the dearth of period Welsh
                    cookbooks, however, the approved method seems to be to
                    pick up references to whatever food one can in the
                    literature, look for the recipes closest in
                    chronology and geography which fit the parameters
                    given, and extrapolate like mad. So 13th-15th century
                    English would be right on target!

                    Darioles are custard pies
                    > that are done with saffron.
                    > But if I recall correctly, they are 13th - 15th
                    > (somewhere in there. I
                    > can't remember this morning, it's been a long day
                    > already) English.

                    A google search for "darioles" yielded a number of
                    hits, all in French (which I will start learning after
                    I'm reasonably competent in Middle Welsh and Latin).
                    However, "daryoles" netted me a number of recipes,
                    some version of which should work quite nicely. Thaks
                    for the tip.

                    Given that the Welsh did not have "bread", that is,
                    wheat bread (English/French commentators did not feel
                    that flat oakcakes qualified) the Little People would
                    most likely have made a crustless custard. Did they
                    have eggs? Elidyr doesn't mention any sort of
                    domestic fowl, but I suppose one could postulate
                    either wild bird eggs or eggs "borrowed" from their
                    neighbors.

                    Andrea



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                  • Heather Rose Jones
                    ... It would probably be worthwhile to discover what the original Latin term was that is being translated as junket . It will give you a more accurate
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 9, 2005
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                      At 10:53 AM -0700 5/9/05, Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg wrote:

                      > I should have been more specific, though, about what
                      >I was looking for.... In the late 12th century,
                      >Gerald of Wales wrote down what he was told by a
                      >priest who used to visit the Little People as a boy:
                      >"They never ate meat or fish. They lived on various
                      >milk dishes, made up into junkets flavoured with
                      >saffron."
                      >
                      >Now, if they didn't eat meat, I can't see them making
                      >an actual junket, which is coagulated with rennet, so
                      >I interpret that as simply some sort of pudding or
                      >cheese-type dish.

                      It would probably be worthwhile to discover what the original Latin
                      term was that is being translated as "junket". It will give you a
                      more accurate starting point for your extrapolations. (If I knew,
                      I'd tell you, but I haven't yet managed to track down my own copy of
                      the original text of Gerald's works.)

                      Tangwystyl
                      --
                      --
                      Heather Rose Jones
                      heather.jones@...
                    • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
                      ... Good point. Meanwhile, though, since another translation renders the phrase made up into messes with saffron , I suspect the term is not all that
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 19, 2005
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                        --- Heather Rose Jones <heather.jones@...>
                        wrote:


                        >
                        > It would probably be worthwhile to discover what the
                        > original Latin
                        > term was that is being translated as "junket".

                        Good point. Meanwhile, though, since another
                        translation renders the phrase "made up into messes
                        with saffron", I suspect the term is not all that
                        specific.

                        Andrea

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