Re: [Authentic_SCA] Yummy Period Turkish Food
- It was asked:
> Cool. I look forward to the information. Where/how will you be makingVia webpage and classes taught at events, most likely.
> this accessible?
>The events are still in the planning stages, but probably December.
> >I'll also be at either the next Middle Kingdom,
> >or Known Worlde Cook's Symposium talking about the document.
> When and where will the Cooks' Symposium be?
>As yet, I have no clue. From what I have heard elsewhere there are
> >There are comments on clothing too though that I hope to provide to
> >people, like that the Turks, according to Derschwam, all kept a spoon on
> >their belt for eating yogurt (which he, by the by, REALLY didn't like).
> OK, did he mean "all Turks" or did he really mean "Turkish
copious comments about clothing, so as I get some of them translated, one
might hope that there is a differentiation between which the males wore
and which the females wore. From the text I've thus far translated,
there's no way to tell. I can't very well ask him either. :-)
Jeffrey S. Heilveil, Ph.D.
Department of Biological Sciences
North Dakota State University
Fargo, ND 58105
- --- Susan Farmer <sfarmer@...> wrote:
>The irony is that the Galatians, living in central Turkey (?), were a
> Jerusha (the culturally illiterate) sees a faint glimmer of light!
> I bet this is like the whole "Celtic" thing, isn't it. Can you
> either elucidate a tad more on the whole Turkic (intersting word,
> there) thing -- or point me in the direction of some reference
> material that I might educate myself!
Cainnech R. mcGuairi
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- Jerusha wrote:
>lilinah@e... wrote:I mentioned some of it in the preceding message. But for a little
> > Yeah, in this case clearly Ottoman. Thanks for letting me know.
> > I have this *thing* about the words "Turk" or "Turkish" as used by
> > many SCAdians. Since there are, as i mentioned, a number of other
> > significant Turkic peoples in SCA period, just saying "Turkish" is
> > really not very meaningful in e-mail unless the context is clear, and
> > in my experience, it rarely is. Naturally, once i have context the
> > use becomes clear, such as in the case you mention.
>Jerusha (the culturally illiterate) sees a faint glimmer of light!
>I bet this is like the whole "Celtic" thing, isn't it. Can you
>either elucidate a tad more on the whole Turkic (intersting word,
>there) thing -- or point me in the direction of some reference
>material that I might educate myself!
more info, here's a very brief essay that i wrote a number of years
This should at least provide an introduction.
Urtatim, formerly Anahita
- Kevin Myers <dobharchu@...> wrote:
>The irony is that the Galatians, living in central Turkey (?), were aAh, hah! Now we encounter the difficulty of separating SCA-period
>Cainnech R. mcGuairi
places and cultures from our modern terms...
Italy and Germany, for example, didn't exist until around 1870. Of
course geographically they did, but not as the unique geo-political
entities with those names. But as short hand we (and i include
myself) tend to use the modern terms when talking about those areas
in SCA-period, even though they weren't called by those names.
So, Cainnech, you are referring to a location in the modern
geo-political entity of Turkey, not to be confused with... oh, well,
let me not get more confused than i already am :-)
Anyway, i suspect that the region you mean is what is often called
Anatolia - the larger part of modern Turkey which is in Southwest
Urtatim, formerly Anahita
- --- lilinah@... wrote:
> So, Cainnech, you are referring to a location in the modernJust waitin' to pounch weren't ye? :)
> geo-political entity of Turkey, not to be confused with... oh, well,
> let me not get more confused than i already am :-)
Yes. Of course I was referring to the region now known as Turkey.
Also called Asia Minor, right? And these Galatians were from around
what is now called Ankara too. Right?
Wasn't that area also part of the Hittite Empire too at some point? Or
was that further southwest of central Anatolia?
I'm just a Dal Riadic Hiberno-Norse Gall-Ghaidhealach who wouldn't be
able to find Scotland on a map either--since it didn't exist as such in
my period. Alba was still used only to refer to the Island that is
called Britain now. So, Turkey?? And then there's this Persian friend
of mine who insists on calling me a Frank. It's all the same to her.
> Anyway, i suspect that the region you mean is what is often called--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> Anatolia - the larger part of modern Turkey which is in Southwest
> Urtatim, formerly Anahita
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- As i believe i've mentioned here, i have
translated into English a French book about 15th
and 16th c. Ottoman food (primarily as eaten in
Istanbul and nearby large cities)
A la table du Grand Turc
Editions Actes Sud, from the 'L'Orient Gourmand / Sindbad' series
Arles France, 2001
I'm nearly done typing it in from my handwritten translation.
Well, waaaaay back on Thusday, 7 April 2005, Jeffrey S. Heilveil wrote:
>Only to be eaten by non-European personae, thanks to Hans Derschwam.In Yerasimos I found a description of what may
>From a 1553-1555 account:
>Rice boiled in honey-water. Throw saffron on it, and sprinkle with
>almonds roasted in fat.
>It is REALLY REALLY good. I'll be making it for the class I'm teaching
well have been the dish that Hans Derschwam ate.
Yerasimos found much food information in the
account books of the palaces and soup
kitchens/alms houses, records of circumcision
celebrations, menus from sultan's meals, and
tales of feasts by ambassadors from Europe to
----- begin quote from my translation -----
Literally "yellow dish", from the Persian zerd.
It is the most popular sweet dish and the
indispensable accompaniment to pilaf in all the
public soup kitchens/alms houses, where it was
served on particular occasions: on Friday
evenings, on the evenings of Ramadan, the days of
the two great holidays, and those of the birth
and the ascension of the Prophet Muhammad. It is
sometimes qualified as a dish of the poor by the
account books of the celebrations of 1539 and
appears only in the common/public feasts. It is
replaced in the feast of dignitaries by the zerde
with milk, where the milk steps in with an equal
quantity with the sugar. The simple zerde appears
in the menu of Topkap in winter. Shirvani, as
well as the cookbooks of the XVIII century and of
the beginning of the XIX century are unaware of
----- end quote -----
Yerasimos could not find a "period" recipe, but
the ingredients as described in documents of the
rice, water or milk, sugar, starch, saffron,
pounded pistachios, and sliced almonds. He
supplied a recipe derived from modern recipes. In
the modern recipe, the rice is cooked in the
water with the sugar until half done. Saffron is
crushed in a small amount of warm water, and
starch (historically wheat starch, modernly
cornstarch) is diluted in the necessary quantity
of warm water. Both are added to the half-cooked
rice. It is then cooked until it is thick and the
rice is soft. It is poured into serving bowls and
let cool. Then it is topped with pistachios and
almonds and served.
I also found a very similar dish called Zard
Pulao in a Moghul cookbook supposedly from the
first half of the 17th century,
Nuskha-e-Shahjahani - actually there are TWO Zard
Pulao recipes. Clearly the name is from the same
Persian word as the Ottoman dish. Both Moghul
recipes include quantities of ingredients in
In one Moghul recipe, a syrup is made of the
water and sugar, then saffron and ghee (clarified
butter) are added to the syrup, which is then set
aside. Next, rice is half-cooked in water, after
which the saffron-ghee-syrup is stirred in, a bit
more ghee is poured on top, the pot is sealed,
and the dish is steamed over a low fire. The
finished dish is served with raisins, pistachios,
and almonds fried (in butter).
In the second Mughul recipe for Zard Pulao, a
syrup is made of water, sugar, and some ground
cinnamon. Then the rice is half-cooked in water,
after which the spiced syrup is added, ghee is
poured on top, the pot is sealed, and the dish is
steamed on a low fire. It is served with fried
raisins. HOWEVER, the ingredients listed include
cloves and cardamom, so i assume they were added
to the syrup with the cinnamon - and the raisins
are not in the ingredient list.
I have not yet cooked any of the four versions to
see how they differ. I intend to when i get "A la
table du Grand Turc" typed in and partly revised.
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita