Re: Elizabethan era heraldic clothing?
- Dear Christina,
so, found my copy of Kohler last night. I scanned the picture to
enlarge the heraldic bit around the hem to try and get a better date
by maybe matching up the heraldry, because I don't buy a date of
1550 for this gown. I'm not that familiar with German clothing, but
this doesn't look like anything from mid-century to me. Unless, and
this is pure conjecture, IF sideless surcotes, though out of fashion
generally, survived in England as Heraldic/Ceremonial dress, which
they _might_ have, perhaps this was the Bavarian version, an older
style dress still worn for ceremony.
I didn't have any luck matching up the heraldry, there is too much
German civic heraldry on the internet that's not dated plus the
picture is too fuzzy to get an accurate blazon to match it by that,
but it did look vaguely similar to the Bavarian heraldry....
But, one thing I could tell when I enlarged it - all three coats of
arms that are visible appear to be identical. The one that's on the
center front also has a coronet above it. I would guess that this
dress was probably worn by one of the Herzogen for ceremony, perhaps
for a wedding? Also, the shields are clearly add ons, they stand out
from the fabric so are not painted on, but are, I would guess
embroidered first & then appliqued on, they appear rather bulky.
I surfed for quite a while last night trying to find any evidence of
this dress but couldn't find anything. Hopefully, it might turn up
in another Victorian era costuming book somewhere... It might have
been lost in the War or perhaps went the way of a lot of costume in
Europe, cut up by Victorians/Edwardian for fancy dress, esp. if they
were in a private collection (& the Kohler book doesn't indicate
where this dress was, unfortunately). Considering it was decorated
with heraldry, that part was probably cut off & used for something
Anyway, as you say, it did exist at _one_ point and as I will not be
using this in competition or anything, I feel fine using small
heraldic shields around the hem of my Spanish surcote....
--- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "xina007eu"
> Hi Margaret,
> if you are desperate enough to use Norris as a source, have you
> the photo in Köhler that shows a dress with Bavarian coats ot armsthe
> around the hem, dated to mid-16th century? Provenance and current
> wherabouts unknown, probably destroyed in WWII I guess, but it's a
> photo of an actual dress that existed when Emma von Sichart took
> photos and that she judged to be a genuine 16th century artefact.Or
> is that the garment that made you mention 1550 as the end date ofthe
> results of your research?
> Best regards,