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Translation request Old German into Modern into English

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  • Daniela Kiefhaber
    Hi Chris (and others who may be interested)! Perhaps I could be some sort of help. I?m only a lurker in this group - so I may introduce myself before I tell
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 2, 2005
      Hi Chris (and others who may be interested)!

      Perhaps I could be some sort of help.
      I?m only a lurker in this group - so I may introduce myself before I tell
      you more:
      I?m Katharina von Aue, living in the Shire of Isengau, in Drachenwald.
      In the mundane world my name is Daniela Kiefhaber, I live somewhat near
      Munich, Bavaria, Germany.
      I have a Master Degree in Middle High German, so if you find a way to send
      me the texts I could translate them in Modern German and help you with the
      translation into English. I?ve looked at the pages and they seem no problem
      at all. At least they are printed and no handwriting from 13th century...
      I?m not that good at English, so I would not dare to try the translation
      into English on my own.
      Just an idea...

      In service,
      Katharina
      -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
      Von: Chris Laning [mailto:
      Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Februar 2005 06:12
      An:
      Betreff: [Authentic_SCA] Another Translation request


      Seeing Sabine's post reminds me that I, too have a translation
      request -- though of a different sort.

      I am trying to translate as precisely as possible at least some of
      the parts of Alanus de Rupe's _Unser lieben frauen psalter_ (1521
      ed.), which is one of the first printed rosary books (originally
      published in 1483, IIRC).

      I'm a bit out of my depth here: German is not my best language (I
      have to look up at least half the words), and since I'm working from
      a microfilm of the original, I'm having to deal with blackletter type
      *and* 16th-century word forms and spellings on top of everything
      else. I've already discovered that 16th century German seems to have
      a couple of letters in its alphabet that I'd never seen before <wry
      grin>.

      This project got its start when I was trying to understand just what
      arrangement of beads the author had in mind for a particular
      paternoster in one of his "Exempla" (anecdotes). Due to a couple of
      _very_ helpful folks elsewhere -- especially to one who not only
      corrected my transcription but gave me translations into modern
      German -- I think I've now got a handle on that one.

      But now I'm intrigued, and I want to read the REST of the book. It's
      not terribly long, but I haven't been able to turn up a modern
      translation into English, or even into modern German, anywhere. (I'd
      still read the original but it would be immensely helpful to have
      something to put alongside of it.)

      Clues, anyone?

      P.S.
      BTW, if anyone else is interested, the original images of the two
      pages of Exemplum 10 are online at:
      http://photos4.flickr.com/4031576_e02c09d3a7_o.gif
      http://photos3.flickr.com/4031572_5297328c56_o.gif

      And the illustration mentioned in that text is online at:
      http://photos4.flickr.com/4031575_c2e874747b.jpg

      --
      ____________________________________________________________

      O (Lady) Christian de Holacombe , Shire of Windy Meads
      + Chris Laning <claning@...>
      http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
      ____________________________________________________________


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    • Angharad ver' Reynulf
      I m trying to work on getting my gear packed into more appropriate containers for taking to and from events, preferably that can also double as seating or
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
        I'm trying to work on getting my gear packed into more
        appropriate containers for taking to and from events,
        preferably that can also double as seating or small
        tables.

        I have absolutely no woodworking skills, no tools and
        with working on my wedding for this year, honestly, no
        time, although I've been looking at some of the online
        articles on chests and beds and *dreaming.*

        But the stuff I'm using I cannot lift anymore-which
        causes problems and it's larger: 26" by 18" by 16" at
        a rough guess.

        I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble
        kits/models, so would this be a good compromise for
        say 3-5 years for someone who does 14th Cen. Welsh
        with anywhere from 0-3 boys at an event?

        http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=12&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&productId=33874

        Kartotek box with Lid, $19.99
        product description & measurements
        Main part: Birch plywood
        Handle: Steel, Galvanized

        Length: 22 1/2 "
        Width: 12 5/8 "
        Height: 11 5/8 "

        Length: 57 cm
        Width: 32 cm
        Height: 29.5 cm


        Thank you,

        Angharat verch Reynulf
        An Tir



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      • wodeford
        ... http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=12&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&productId=33874 ... I was eyeing wooden chests at Cost
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
          <dragonwolfcat@y...> wrote:

          > I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble
          > kits/models, so would this be a good compromise for
          > say 3-5 years for someone who does 14th Cen. Welsh
          > with anywhere from 0-3 boys at an event?
          >
          http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=12&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&productId=33874
          >
          > Kartotek box with Lid, $19.99
          > product description & measurements
          > Main part: Birch plywood
          > Handle: Steel, Galvanized

          I was eyeing wooden chests at Cost Plus, Pier One and Target and most
          of them are meant to be either decorative or furniture, i.e., either
          too flimsy or too doggone heavy to travel with. I think this box looks
          pretty good except for that shiny galvanized hardware - and that you
          can paint over or remove. I may have to toddle over to my local IKEA
          and have a look this afternoon!

          Jehanne
        • Laurie Cavanaugh
          I m a 14thC maven, and I might buy one myself. :-) I would suggest painting the galvanized handles black to make them less obtrusive, but staining is optional.
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
            I'm a 14thC maven, and I might buy one myself. :-) I would suggest painting
            the galvanized handles black to make them less obtrusive, but staining is
            optional. Lots of medieval chests were painted. This box at only 7 7/8
            inches high will be too short for you to sit on, but may be just right for
            your boys if they are still small. Great size for carrying, though.

            I went through the same thing for a number of years with building or buying
            boxes too big to reasonably carry. Oddly enough, the longest-in-use piece
            of gear I own is a round-top chest I bought at the 20-year celebration.
            Small enough to carry, large enough to be useful, and I don't set things on
            the curved top, which means it's available when I want to sit on it. :-)
            The brass handles are modern, but I love this box and still use it anyway.

            Morgan Athenry
            --- Laurie Cavanaugh
            --- lscavanaugh@...
          • Gary Halstead
            As someone pointed out, this might be little low to sit on. Two pieces of advice: definitely give it a coat of paint or varnish (I d go for paint,
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
              As someone pointed out, this might be little low to sit on. Two pieces
              of advice: definitely give it a coat of paint or varnish (I'd go for
              paint, personally) to seal it - it will last much longer that way.
              Also, get a couple of pieces of scrap wood to keep it off the ground
              while you're camping; prolonged dampness will kill most interior plywood.

              Ranulf,
              Wood Geek

              Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote:
              >
              > I'm trying to work on getting my gear packed into more
              > appropriate containers for taking to and from events,
              > preferably that can also double as seating or small
              > tables.
              >
              > I have absolutely no woodworking skills, no tools and
              > with working on my wedding for this year, honestly, no
              > time, although I've been looking at some of the online
              > articles on chests and beds and *dreaming.*
              >
              > But the stuff I'm using I cannot lift anymore-which
              > causes problems and it's larger: 26" by 18" by 16" at
              > a rough guess.
              >
              > I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble
              > kits/models, so would this be a good compromise for
              > say 3-5 years for someone who does 14th Cen. Welsh
              > with anywhere from 0-3 boys at an event?
              >
              > http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=12&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&productId=33874
              >
              > Kartotek box with Lid, $19.99
              > product description & measurements
              > Main part: Birch plywood
              > Handle: Steel, Galvanized
              >
              > Length: 22 1/2 "
              > Width: 12 5/8 "
              > Height: 11 5/8 "
              >
              > Length: 57 cm
              > Width: 32 cm
              > Height: 29.5 cm
              >
              >
              > Thank you,
              >
              > Angharat verch Reynulf
              > An Tir
            • Marion McNealy
              Another thought, make yourself cloth bags to carry your gear and get stools and or chairs for sitting on. This last summer, I made some very simple cloth bags
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
                Another thought, make yourself cloth bags to carry your gear and get stools and or chairs for sitting on.

                This last summer, I made some very simple cloth bags from a length of linen fabric to carry my bedding and clothing in. They have handles and ties on the sides and the middle and are very light to carry.

                For seating, those three legged folding artist stools are period for 16th century, and bench seating is also period for a large range of time.

                -Marion








                Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote:
                >
                > I'm trying to work on getting my gear packed into more
                > appropriate containers for taking to and from events,
                > preferably that can also double as seating or small
                > tables.





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Angharad ver' Reynulf
                Thank you all for your quick input. I have offers from two local friends to help assemble these and assist in any necessary adjustments. (see below) In regards
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
                  Thank you all for your quick input.

                  I have offers from two local friends to help assemble
                  these and assist in any necessary adjustments. (see
                  below)

                  In regards to keeping scrap wood to keep the boxes off
                  of the ground, would it be feasible to add feet to the
                  bases of the boxes? With their help, I should be able
                  to get basic wood cut to add maybe a 2" foot?
                  (something like a 2 x 2 running down the width so that
                  the grain is sideways? not certain what was meant by
                  that) That would raise the boxes off of the ground,
                  and with the possible stacking, also allow the
                  poles/slats to be run underneath them while packing
                  the van.

                  My lower leg length from heel to inner knee bend is
                  just under 16". So it would also almost lift it to a
                  comfortable height for me, the addition of a nicely
                  worked cushion should do it, I think.

                  Angharat




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                • wodeford
                  ... You might want to think about removable feet. I have a chest with feet and I find that trying to shove it in and out of the ridged bedliner in my pick-up
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
                    <dragonwolfcat@y...> wrote:

                    > In regards to keeping scrap wood to keep the boxes off
                    > of the ground, would it be feasible to add feet to the
                    > bases of the boxes? With their help, I should be able
                    > to get basic wood cut to add maybe a 2" foot?
                    > (something like a 2 x 2 running down the width so that
                    > the grain is sideways? not certain what was meant by
                    > that) That would raise the boxes off of the ground,
                    > and with the possible stacking, also allow the
                    > poles/slats to be run underneath them while packing
                    > the van.
                    You might want to think about removable feet. I have a chest with feet
                    and I find that trying to shove it in and out of the ridged bedliner
                    in my pick-up is a pain.. For my flat bottomed kitchen box, I keep a
                    few pieces of 2"x"4 scraps around, which is usually enough to raise
                    them off the ground when needed. When it's time to shove things back
                    in the truck, the flat bottomed box slides right in again, the scrap
                    wood pieces are small enough to fit in odd corners, and you haven't
                    added any weight to your box.

                    Since you're planning on your boxes doubling as seating, you might try
                    this. Cut two pieces of 2"x4" the width of your box plus 8 inches.
                    Cut four pieces 4 inches long. Drill each 4" piece for a bolt in the
                    center. Measure 4" from each end of the long pieces and drill the
                    centers of each 4" square on these as well. Sandwich the long pieces
                    between two 4" pieces at each end and bolt them together. You should
                    end up with something that looks like a squat H. If you measure
                    correctly, you should be able to sit your box on the long slats and
                    the 4" squares on the top of each end will keep it from shifting
                    around when someone sits on it. This will add 4" of height to your
                    box, though you could cut and add 4" squares to the bottom of the H if
                    you wanted more height. And again, once you want to pick up your box
                    to move it, the legs come off and aren't adding weight to your burden.

                    Hope this makes sense.

                    Jehanne

                    Does this make any sense?
                    >
                    > My lower leg length from heel to inner knee bend is
                    > just under 16". So it would also almost lift it to a
                    > comfortable height for me, the addition of a nicely
                    > worked cushion should do it, I think.
                    >
                    > Angharat
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
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                  • Mary Taran
                    ... I don t know if you noticed, but there are two sizes--the other one is 12 high. Still a little short, but better. Mary Taran -- No virus found in this
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
                      At 09:35 AM 2/3/2005, you wrote:


                      >I'm a 14thC maven, and I might buy one myself. :-) I would suggest painting
                      >the galvanized handles black to make them less obtrusive, but staining is
                      >optional. Lots of medieval chests were painted. This box at only 7 7/8
                      >inches high will be too short for you to sit on, but may be just right for
                      >your boys if they are still small. Great size for carrying, though.
                      >
                      >I went through the same thing for a number of years with building or buying
                      >boxes too big to reasonably carry. Oddly enough, the longest-in-use piece
                      >of gear I own is a round-top chest I bought at the 20-year celebration.
                      >Small enough to carry, large enough to be useful, and I don't set things on
                      >the curved top, which means it's available when I want to sit on it. :-)
                      >The brass handles are modern, but I love this box and still use it anyway.
                      >
                      >Morgan Athenry
                      >--- Laurie Cavanaugh
                      >--- lscavanaugh@...

                      I don't know if you noticed, but there are two sizes--the other one is 12"
                      high. Still a little short, but better.

                      Mary Taran


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                    • DawnsHebog@aol.com
                      In a message dated 2/3/05 9:14:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com writes: I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble kits/models, so
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 4, 2005
                        In a message dated 2/3/05 9:14:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                        dragonwolfcat@... writes:
                        I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble
                        kits/models, so would this be a good compromise for
                        say 3-5 years for someone who does 14th Cen. Welsh
                        with anywhere from 0-3 boys at an event?
                        I can't beat their mass production prices, and they look very sturdy. I say
                        try one of theirs, and see how it goes for a season. You might even make sure
                        it gets its fair share of abuse by dropping, exposing to sun, and an hour of
                        good rain soaking.
                        Just to try it out, and you'll only lose twenty bucks on it.
                        I know what my stuff will do, but I do all my work by hand, and charge for it.

                        H


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • wodeford
                        ... I picked one up at the local IKEA yesterday and will probably assemble it tomorrow. I thought it looked OK and certainly sturdy enough. Paint or swapping
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 4, 2005
                          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
                          <dragonwolfcat@y...> wrote:

                          > Kartotek box with Lid, $19.99

                          I picked one up at the local IKEA yesterday and will probably assemble
                          it tomorrow. I thought it looked OK and certainly sturdy enough. Paint
                          or swapping out the hardware will hide the shiny galvanized bits.

                          Don't know if it's obvious from the catalog listing, but the lid is
                          not attached to the body of the box in any way. You'd have to install
                          your own hinges if you want a hinged top.

                          Jehanne
                        • Angharad ver' Reynulf
                          Thank you for the update Jehanne! I have to travel a bit to IKEA, so I was definitely hoping to get as much info as possible before hand. Angharat
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 4, 2005
                            Thank you for the update Jehanne!

                            I have to travel a bit to IKEA, so I was definitely
                            hoping to get as much info as possible before hand.

                            Angharat


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                          • wodeford
                            ... You re welcome. I just peeled off the plastic and laid out the parts for assembly and wanted to let you know that the handles are already attached to the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 5, 2005
                              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
                              <dragonwolfcat@y...> wrote:
                              > Thank you for the update Jehanne!

                              You're welcome. I just peeled off the plastic and laid out the parts
                              for assembly and wanted to let you know that the handles are already
                              attached to the sides - with rivets. If you decide you want to swap
                              out the hardware, you'll have to pry them off forcibly.

                              Assembly-wise, the sides are slotted so that the bottom panel fits
                              into it. It's never a bad idea to put a little wood glue in these
                              slots for added strength. The bottom panel is a thinner ply than all
                              the other parts, but should be OK unless you're planning on hauling
                              cannonballs in it. ;->

                              As mentioned previously, the lid lifts off. The short sides of the lid
                              are beveled to fit flush, strips of plywood appear to be glued on the
                              underside running along the long sides so the lid doesn't surf off the
                              chest. Caveat: I also have their APA storage box and one of the
                              screwed on strips decided not to stay screwed after a rough ride off a
                              primitive site. Depending on how hard you are on the box, you might
                              have to reattach one or both of these at a future date.

                              The long sides of the lid are not beveled, so if you want to attach
                              hinges and a hasp of some sort, you should be able to do so.

                              Oh, and you'll need a Phillips head screwdriver to screw the sides to
                              the front and back panels.

                              Back to work,
                              Jehanne
                            • wodeford
                              ... And possibly a drill - while there were screw holes predrilled, they didn t *quite* line up correctly, so I had to re-drill most of the ones on mine. And
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 5, 2005
                                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "wodeford" <wodeford@y...> wrote:

                                > Oh, and you'll need a Phillips head screwdriver to screw the sides to
                                > the front and back panels.

                                And possibly a drill - while there were screw holes predrilled, they
                                didn't *quite* line up correctly, so I had to re-drill most of the
                                ones on mine.

                                And sandpaper.

                                Other than that, it goes together very easily.

                                Jehanne
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