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Another Translation request

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  • Chris Laning
    Seeing Sabine s post reminds me that I, too have a translation request -- though of a different sort. I am trying to translate as precisely as possible at
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 2, 2005
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      Seeing Sabine's post reminds me that I, too have a translation
      request -- though of a different sort.

      I am trying to translate as precisely as possible at least some of
      the parts of Alanus de Rupe's _Unser lieben frauen psalter_ (1521
      ed.), which is one of the first printed rosary books (originally
      published in 1483, IIRC).

      I'm a bit out of my depth here: German is not my best language (I
      have to look up at least half the words), and since I'm working from
      a microfilm of the original, I'm having to deal with blackletter type
      *and* 16th-century word forms and spellings on top of everything
      else. I've already discovered that 16th century German seems to have
      a couple of letters in its alphabet that I'd never seen before <wry
      grin>.

      This project got its start when I was trying to understand just what
      arrangement of beads the author had in mind for a particular
      paternoster in one of his "Exempla" (anecdotes). Due to a couple of
      _very_ helpful folks elsewhere -- especially to one who not only
      corrected my transcription but gave me translations into modern
      German -- I think I've now got a handle on that one.

      But now I'm intrigued, and I want to read the REST of the book. It's
      not terribly long, but I haven't been able to turn up a modern
      translation into English, or even into modern German, anywhere. (I'd
      still read the original but it would be immensely helpful to have
      something to put alongside of it.)

      Clues, anyone?

      P.S.
      BTW, if anyone else is interested, the original images of the two
      pages of Exemplum 10 are online at:
      http://photos4.flickr.com/4031576_e02c09d3a7_o.gif
      http://photos3.flickr.com/4031572_5297328c56_o.gif

      And the illustration mentioned in that text is online at:
      http://photos4.flickr.com/4031575_c2e874747b.jpg

      --
      ____________________________________________________________

      O (Lady) Christian de Holacombe , Shire of Windy Meads
      + Chris Laning <claning@...>
      http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
      ____________________________________________________________
    • Daniela Kiefhaber
      Hi Chris (and others who may be interested)! Perhaps I could be some sort of help. I?m only a lurker in this group - so I may introduce myself before I tell
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 2, 2005
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        Hi Chris (and others who may be interested)!

        Perhaps I could be some sort of help.
        I?m only a lurker in this group - so I may introduce myself before I tell
        you more:
        I?m Katharina von Aue, living in the Shire of Isengau, in Drachenwald.
        In the mundane world my name is Daniela Kiefhaber, I live somewhat near
        Munich, Bavaria, Germany.
        I have a Master Degree in Middle High German, so if you find a way to send
        me the texts I could translate them in Modern German and help you with the
        translation into English. I?ve looked at the pages and they seem no problem
        at all. At least they are printed and no handwriting from 13th century...
        I?m not that good at English, so I would not dare to try the translation
        into English on my own.
        Just an idea...

        In service,
        Katharina
        -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
        Von: Chris Laning [mailto:
        Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Februar 2005 06:12
        An:
        Betreff: [Authentic_SCA] Another Translation request


        Seeing Sabine's post reminds me that I, too have a translation
        request -- though of a different sort.

        I am trying to translate as precisely as possible at least some of
        the parts of Alanus de Rupe's _Unser lieben frauen psalter_ (1521
        ed.), which is one of the first printed rosary books (originally
        published in 1483, IIRC).

        I'm a bit out of my depth here: German is not my best language (I
        have to look up at least half the words), and since I'm working from
        a microfilm of the original, I'm having to deal with blackletter type
        *and* 16th-century word forms and spellings on top of everything
        else. I've already discovered that 16th century German seems to have
        a couple of letters in its alphabet that I'd never seen before <wry
        grin>.

        This project got its start when I was trying to understand just what
        arrangement of beads the author had in mind for a particular
        paternoster in one of his "Exempla" (anecdotes). Due to a couple of
        _very_ helpful folks elsewhere -- especially to one who not only
        corrected my transcription but gave me translations into modern
        German -- I think I've now got a handle on that one.

        But now I'm intrigued, and I want to read the REST of the book. It's
        not terribly long, but I haven't been able to turn up a modern
        translation into English, or even into modern German, anywhere. (I'd
        still read the original but it would be immensely helpful to have
        something to put alongside of it.)

        Clues, anyone?

        P.S.
        BTW, if anyone else is interested, the original images of the two
        pages of Exemplum 10 are online at:
        http://photos4.flickr.com/4031576_e02c09d3a7_o.gif
        http://photos3.flickr.com/4031572_5297328c56_o.gif

        And the illustration mentioned in that text is online at:
        http://photos4.flickr.com/4031575_c2e874747b.jpg

        --
        ____________________________________________________________

        O (Lady) Christian de Holacombe , Shire of Windy Meads
        + Chris Laning <claning@...>
        http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
        ____________________________________________________________


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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Angharad ver' Reynulf
        I m trying to work on getting my gear packed into more appropriate containers for taking to and from events, preferably that can also double as seating or
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
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          I'm trying to work on getting my gear packed into more
          appropriate containers for taking to and from events,
          preferably that can also double as seating or small
          tables.

          I have absolutely no woodworking skills, no tools and
          with working on my wedding for this year, honestly, no
          time, although I've been looking at some of the online
          articles on chests and beds and *dreaming.*

          But the stuff I'm using I cannot lift anymore-which
          causes problems and it's larger: 26" by 18" by 16" at
          a rough guess.

          I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble
          kits/models, so would this be a good compromise for
          say 3-5 years for someone who does 14th Cen. Welsh
          with anywhere from 0-3 boys at an event?

          http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=12&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&productId=33874

          Kartotek box with Lid, $19.99
          product description & measurements
          Main part: Birch plywood
          Handle: Steel, Galvanized

          Length: 22 1/2 "
          Width: 12 5/8 "
          Height: 11 5/8 "

          Length: 57 cm
          Width: 32 cm
          Height: 29.5 cm


          Thank you,

          Angharat verch Reynulf
          An Tir



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        • wodeford
          ... http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=12&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&productId=33874 ... I was eyeing wooden chests at Cost
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
            <dragonwolfcat@y...> wrote:

            > I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble
            > kits/models, so would this be a good compromise for
            > say 3-5 years for someone who does 14th Cen. Welsh
            > with anywhere from 0-3 boys at an event?
            >
            http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=12&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&productId=33874
            >
            > Kartotek box with Lid, $19.99
            > product description & measurements
            > Main part: Birch plywood
            > Handle: Steel, Galvanized

            I was eyeing wooden chests at Cost Plus, Pier One and Target and most
            of them are meant to be either decorative or furniture, i.e., either
            too flimsy or too doggone heavy to travel with. I think this box looks
            pretty good except for that shiny galvanized hardware - and that you
            can paint over or remove. I may have to toddle over to my local IKEA
            and have a look this afternoon!

            Jehanne
          • Laurie Cavanaugh
            I m a 14thC maven, and I might buy one myself. :-) I would suggest painting the galvanized handles black to make them less obtrusive, but staining is optional.
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
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              I'm a 14thC maven, and I might buy one myself. :-) I would suggest painting
              the galvanized handles black to make them less obtrusive, but staining is
              optional. Lots of medieval chests were painted. This box at only 7 7/8
              inches high will be too short for you to sit on, but may be just right for
              your boys if they are still small. Great size for carrying, though.

              I went through the same thing for a number of years with building or buying
              boxes too big to reasonably carry. Oddly enough, the longest-in-use piece
              of gear I own is a round-top chest I bought at the 20-year celebration.
              Small enough to carry, large enough to be useful, and I don't set things on
              the curved top, which means it's available when I want to sit on it. :-)
              The brass handles are modern, but I love this box and still use it anyway.

              Morgan Athenry
              --- Laurie Cavanaugh
              --- lscavanaugh@...
            • Gary Halstead
              As someone pointed out, this might be little low to sit on. Two pieces of advice: definitely give it a coat of paint or varnish (I d go for paint,
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
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                As someone pointed out, this might be little low to sit on. Two pieces
                of advice: definitely give it a coat of paint or varnish (I'd go for
                paint, personally) to seal it - it will last much longer that way.
                Also, get a couple of pieces of scrap wood to keep it off the ground
                while you're camping; prolonged dampness will kill most interior plywood.

                Ranulf,
                Wood Geek

                Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote:
                >
                > I'm trying to work on getting my gear packed into more
                > appropriate containers for taking to and from events,
                > preferably that can also double as seating or small
                > tables.
                >
                > I have absolutely no woodworking skills, no tools and
                > with working on my wedding for this year, honestly, no
                > time, although I've been looking at some of the online
                > articles on chests and beds and *dreaming.*
                >
                > But the stuff I'm using I cannot lift anymore-which
                > causes problems and it's larger: 26" by 18" by 16" at
                > a rough guess.
                >
                > I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble
                > kits/models, so would this be a good compromise for
                > say 3-5 years for someone who does 14th Cen. Welsh
                > with anywhere from 0-3 boys at an event?
                >
                > http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=12&langId=-1&catalogId=10101&productId=33874
                >
                > Kartotek box with Lid, $19.99
                > product description & measurements
                > Main part: Birch plywood
                > Handle: Steel, Galvanized
                >
                > Length: 22 1/2 "
                > Width: 12 5/8 "
                > Height: 11 5/8 "
                >
                > Length: 57 cm
                > Width: 32 cm
                > Height: 29.5 cm
                >
                >
                > Thank you,
                >
                > Angharat verch Reynulf
                > An Tir
              • Marion McNealy
                Another thought, make yourself cloth bags to carry your gear and get stools and or chairs for sitting on. This last summer, I made some very simple cloth bags
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
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                  Another thought, make yourself cloth bags to carry your gear and get stools and or chairs for sitting on.

                  This last summer, I made some very simple cloth bags from a length of linen fabric to carry my bedding and clothing in. They have handles and ties on the sides and the middle and are very light to carry.

                  For seating, those three legged folding artist stools are period for 16th century, and bench seating is also period for a large range of time.

                  -Marion








                  Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm trying to work on getting my gear packed into more
                  > appropriate containers for taking to and from events,
                  > preferably that can also double as seating or small
                  > tables.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Angharad ver' Reynulf
                  Thank you all for your quick input. I have offers from two local friends to help assemble these and assist in any necessary adjustments. (see below) In regards
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
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                    Thank you all for your quick input.

                    I have offers from two local friends to help assemble
                    these and assist in any necessary adjustments. (see
                    below)

                    In regards to keeping scrap wood to keep the boxes off
                    of the ground, would it be feasible to add feet to the
                    bases of the boxes? With their help, I should be able
                    to get basic wood cut to add maybe a 2" foot?
                    (something like a 2 x 2 running down the width so that
                    the grain is sideways? not certain what was meant by
                    that) That would raise the boxes off of the ground,
                    and with the possible stacking, also allow the
                    poles/slats to be run underneath them while packing
                    the van.

                    My lower leg length from heel to inner knee bend is
                    just under 16". So it would also almost lift it to a
                    comfortable height for me, the addition of a nicely
                    worked cushion should do it, I think.

                    Angharat




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                  • wodeford
                    ... You might want to think about removable feet. I have a chest with feet and I find that trying to shove it in and out of the ridged bedliner in my pick-up
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
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                      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
                      <dragonwolfcat@y...> wrote:

                      > In regards to keeping scrap wood to keep the boxes off
                      > of the ground, would it be feasible to add feet to the
                      > bases of the boxes? With their help, I should be able
                      > to get basic wood cut to add maybe a 2" foot?
                      > (something like a 2 x 2 running down the width so that
                      > the grain is sideways? not certain what was meant by
                      > that) That would raise the boxes off of the ground,
                      > and with the possible stacking, also allow the
                      > poles/slats to be run underneath them while packing
                      > the van.
                      You might want to think about removable feet. I have a chest with feet
                      and I find that trying to shove it in and out of the ridged bedliner
                      in my pick-up is a pain.. For my flat bottomed kitchen box, I keep a
                      few pieces of 2"x"4 scraps around, which is usually enough to raise
                      them off the ground when needed. When it's time to shove things back
                      in the truck, the flat bottomed box slides right in again, the scrap
                      wood pieces are small enough to fit in odd corners, and you haven't
                      added any weight to your box.

                      Since you're planning on your boxes doubling as seating, you might try
                      this. Cut two pieces of 2"x4" the width of your box plus 8 inches.
                      Cut four pieces 4 inches long. Drill each 4" piece for a bolt in the
                      center. Measure 4" from each end of the long pieces and drill the
                      centers of each 4" square on these as well. Sandwich the long pieces
                      between two 4" pieces at each end and bolt them together. You should
                      end up with something that looks like a squat H. If you measure
                      correctly, you should be able to sit your box on the long slats and
                      the 4" squares on the top of each end will keep it from shifting
                      around when someone sits on it. This will add 4" of height to your
                      box, though you could cut and add 4" squares to the bottom of the H if
                      you wanted more height. And again, once you want to pick up your box
                      to move it, the legs come off and aren't adding weight to your burden.

                      Hope this makes sense.

                      Jehanne

                      Does this make any sense?
                      >
                      > My lower leg length from heel to inner knee bend is
                      > just under 16". So it would also almost lift it to a
                      > comfortable height for me, the addition of a nicely
                      > worked cushion should do it, I think.
                      >
                      > Angharat
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________
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                      > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
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                    • Mary Taran
                      ... I don t know if you noticed, but there are two sizes--the other one is 12 high. Still a little short, but better. Mary Taran -- No virus found in this
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 3, 2005
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                        At 09:35 AM 2/3/2005, you wrote:


                        >I'm a 14thC maven, and I might buy one myself. :-) I would suggest painting
                        >the galvanized handles black to make them less obtrusive, but staining is
                        >optional. Lots of medieval chests were painted. This box at only 7 7/8
                        >inches high will be too short for you to sit on, but may be just right for
                        >your boys if they are still small. Great size for carrying, though.
                        >
                        >I went through the same thing for a number of years with building or buying
                        >boxes too big to reasonably carry. Oddly enough, the longest-in-use piece
                        >of gear I own is a round-top chest I bought at the 20-year celebration.
                        >Small enough to carry, large enough to be useful, and I don't set things on
                        >the curved top, which means it's available when I want to sit on it. :-)
                        >The brass handles are modern, but I love this box and still use it anyway.
                        >
                        >Morgan Athenry
                        >--- Laurie Cavanaugh
                        >--- lscavanaugh@...

                        I don't know if you noticed, but there are two sizes--the other one is 12"
                        high. Still a little short, but better.

                        Mary Taran


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                      • DawnsHebog@aol.com
                        In a message dated 2/3/05 9:14:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com writes: I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble kits/models, so
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 4, 2005
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                          In a message dated 2/3/05 9:14:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                          dragonwolfcat@... writes:
                          I do know how to stain, paint and can assemble
                          kits/models, so would this be a good compromise for
                          say 3-5 years for someone who does 14th Cen. Welsh
                          with anywhere from 0-3 boys at an event?
                          I can't beat their mass production prices, and they look very sturdy. I say
                          try one of theirs, and see how it goes for a season. You might even make sure
                          it gets its fair share of abuse by dropping, exposing to sun, and an hour of
                          good rain soaking.
                          Just to try it out, and you'll only lose twenty bucks on it.
                          I know what my stuff will do, but I do all my work by hand, and charge for it.

                          H


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • wodeford
                          ... I picked one up at the local IKEA yesterday and will probably assemble it tomorrow. I thought it looked OK and certainly sturdy enough. Paint or swapping
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 4, 2005
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                            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
                            <dragonwolfcat@y...> wrote:

                            > Kartotek box with Lid, $19.99

                            I picked one up at the local IKEA yesterday and will probably assemble
                            it tomorrow. I thought it looked OK and certainly sturdy enough. Paint
                            or swapping out the hardware will hide the shiny galvanized bits.

                            Don't know if it's obvious from the catalog listing, but the lid is
                            not attached to the body of the box in any way. You'd have to install
                            your own hinges if you want a hinged top.

                            Jehanne
                          • Angharad ver' Reynulf
                            Thank you for the update Jehanne! I have to travel a bit to IKEA, so I was definitely hoping to get as much info as possible before hand. Angharat
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 4, 2005
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                              Thank you for the update Jehanne!

                              I have to travel a bit to IKEA, so I was definitely
                              hoping to get as much info as possible before hand.

                              Angharat


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                            • wodeford
                              ... You re welcome. I just peeled off the plastic and laid out the parts for assembly and wanted to let you know that the handles are already attached to the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 5, 2005
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                                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
                                <dragonwolfcat@y...> wrote:
                                > Thank you for the update Jehanne!

                                You're welcome. I just peeled off the plastic and laid out the parts
                                for assembly and wanted to let you know that the handles are already
                                attached to the sides - with rivets. If you decide you want to swap
                                out the hardware, you'll have to pry them off forcibly.

                                Assembly-wise, the sides are slotted so that the bottom panel fits
                                into it. It's never a bad idea to put a little wood glue in these
                                slots for added strength. The bottom panel is a thinner ply than all
                                the other parts, but should be OK unless you're planning on hauling
                                cannonballs in it. ;->

                                As mentioned previously, the lid lifts off. The short sides of the lid
                                are beveled to fit flush, strips of plywood appear to be glued on the
                                underside running along the long sides so the lid doesn't surf off the
                                chest. Caveat: I also have their APA storage box and one of the
                                screwed on strips decided not to stay screwed after a rough ride off a
                                primitive site. Depending on how hard you are on the box, you might
                                have to reattach one or both of these at a future date.

                                The long sides of the lid are not beveled, so if you want to attach
                                hinges and a hasp of some sort, you should be able to do so.

                                Oh, and you'll need a Phillips head screwdriver to screw the sides to
                                the front and back panels.

                                Back to work,
                                Jehanne
                              • wodeford
                                ... And possibly a drill - while there were screw holes predrilled, they didn t *quite* line up correctly, so I had to re-drill most of the ones on mine. And
                                Message 15 of 16 , Feb 5, 2005
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                                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "wodeford" <wodeford@y...> wrote:

                                  > Oh, and you'll need a Phillips head screwdriver to screw the sides to
                                  > the front and back panels.

                                  And possibly a drill - while there were screw holes predrilled, they
                                  didn't *quite* line up correctly, so I had to re-drill most of the
                                  ones on mine.

                                  And sandpaper.

                                  Other than that, it goes together very easily.

                                  Jehanne
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