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  • Catalin Zoldszem
    I have a question for you guys. The SCA s roots are totally based as a social/sporting club. Does anybody know when and where we really started moving more
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 7, 2005
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      I have a question for you guys. The SCA's roots are totally based as a social/sporting club. Does anybody know when and where we really started moving more towards authenticity? That's the big thing now, to be authentic; but there is still a huge amount of people in it for social/sporting reasons.

      I've been finding this isn't the easiest thing to find information on. People have all sorts of ideas about the awards system and authenticity, but I've been having trouble finding peolpe who know the actual history of how we got to where we are now.

      Also, do you think we're moving towards being mostly authentic and less a social/sporting club?

      Cat

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mary Taran
      ... The West Kingdom History Project (google it, I don t have it bookmarked just now) is probably the best source of Early SCA History you ll find anywhere.
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 7, 2005
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        At 03:04 PM 1/7/2005, you wrote:



        >I have a question for you guys. The SCA's roots are totally based as a
        >social/sporting club. Does anybody know when and where we really started
        >moving more towards authenticity? That's the big thing now, to be
        >authentic; but there is still a huge amount of people in it for
        >social/sporting reasons.
        >
        >I've been finding this isn't the easiest thing to find information
        >on. People have all sorts of ideas about the awards system and
        >authenticity, but I've been having trouble finding peolpe who know the
        >actual history of how we got to where we are now.
        >
        >Also, do you think we're moving towards being mostly authentic and less a
        >social/sporting club?
        >
        >Cat


        The West Kingdom History Project (google it, I don't have it bookmarked
        just now) is probably the best source of Early SCA History you'll find
        anywhere.

        Mary Taran


        --
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      • bronwynmgn@aol.com
        In a message dated 1/8/2005 3:15:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 8, 2005
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          In a message dated 1/8/2005 3:15:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

          <<The SCA's roots are totally based as a social/sporting club.>>

          I don't know that I would say that, actually. Mind you, I've only been
          around for 15 or 16 years, but from what I've heard from older members, there was
          always a part of the SCA that was truly interested in learning about the
          Middle Ages - which is what Corpora has said we are right from the beginning, an
          educational group dedicated to learning and teaching about the Middle Ages.
          From what I've heard of some of the folks at the First Event, they had
          gotten involved because they wanted to learn medieval sword-fighting, not because
          they wanted to create a sport of modern sword-fighting. I have heard this
          "The SCA has always been about having fun" argument quite a lot, usually as a
          way for folks who aren't into authenticity to try to marginalize those of us
          who are and make it seem like we aren't REALLY part of the SCA, just some
          folks who don't really know what the game is supposed to be about and are trying
          to change it to make everyone play it our way.

          <<Does anybody know when and where we really started moving more towards
          authenticity? That's the big thing now, to be authentic; but there is still a
          huge amount of people in it for social/sporting reasons. >>

          I personally noticed a major change about 10 years ago. Whether that is
          because I suddenly got more interested in it myself and therefore started
          noticing the people doing it already, or because a lot of people got the bug at the
          same time, I don't know. And how big a thing it is to be authentic really
          varies from area to area; in my area, the vast majority of people are here for
          the social/sporting end and authenticists are a definite minority, and often
          a denigrated one. I certainly wouldn't say that, overall in the southern
          section of the East Kingdom, authenticity is the big thing. I would say that
          there is a definite and growing minority of people who are highly into
          authenticity, and another group of people who look at us with respect and admiration
          and either hope to be us "one day" or think they could never do it
          themselves, and the third and largest group of people who firmly believe that we are
          out to force everyone to join the collective and ruin everybody else's fun.

          <<Also, do you think we're moving towards being mostly authentic and less a
          social/sporting club?>>

          I think there is a slowly improving overall authenticity level, with a
          slowly growing base of people who are either dedicated to authenticity or aren't
          actively opposed to it and will do something authentic if you can convince them
          that it's as easy or easier than doing it the "SCA way", and a somewhat
          larger group of people who are either convinced that authenticists are trying to
          take over the SCA and will fight them tooth and nail to preserve to the SCA's
          ancient and hallowed traditions forever or who simply don't care either way
          as long as there is enough beer and nobody tells them they have to get better
          garb.

          Brangwayna
        • wodeford
          ... bookmarked ... find ... It s at http://history.westkingdom.org/ Jehanne
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 8, 2005
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Mary Taran <marytaran@a...>
            wrote:
            > The West Kingdom History Project (google it, I don't have it
            bookmarked
            > just now) is probably the best source of Early SCA History you'll
            find
            > anywhere.


            It's at http://history.westkingdom.org/

            Jehanne
          • Heather Rose Jones
            ... I m not at all ready to accept your premise. If you look at the background and motivations of the folks at the First Tournament, there s a strong streak
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 9, 2005
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              At 5:04 PM -0600 1/7/05, Catalin Zoldszem wrote:
              >I have a question for you guys. The SCA's roots are totally based
              >as a social/sporting club.


              I'm not at all ready to accept your premise. If you look at the
              background and motivations of the folks at the First Tournament,
              there's a strong streak of sincere interest in history. It was
              tempered by romanticism and by a heavy dose of science-fiction
              fandom, but they didn't _need_ a new social club -- this was, to a
              large extent, a pre-existing social circle. And the emphasis on
              sport was more of a later development than a significant "root".


              > Does anybody know when and where we really started moving more
              >towards authenticity? That's the big thing now, to be authentic;
              >but there is still a huge amount of people in it for social/sporting
              >reasons.


              My impression is that the proportions of people interested in history
              versus sports versus socializing have stayed largely constant (with a
              lot of local variation), but there have been significant improvements
              at various times in the resources available to those with historic
              interests. In one sense, I think we've been moving towards more
              authenticity since day one. In another sense, I think that there may
              be a greater awareness of those with an interest in authenticity due
              to improved communication, but I'm not at all convinced that the
              actual proportion is greater.


              >I've been finding this isn't the easiest thing to find information
              >on. People have all sorts of ideas about the awards system and
              >authenticity, but I've been having trouble finding peolpe who know
              >the actual history of how we got to where we are now.


              As others have noted, a good grounding in the early history and
              concerns of the SCA can be founded in the Annotated History of the
              West web site.


              >Also, do you think we're moving towards being mostly authentic and
              >less a social/sporting club?

              No -- see above.

              Tangwystyl
              --
              ****
              Heather Rose Jones
              heather.jones@...
              ****
            • Melissa A Barton (S)
              [[Also, do you think we re moving towards being mostly authentic and less a social/sporting club?]] I m not quite caught up on this thread, but I really don t
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 10, 2005
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                [[Also, do you think we're moving towards being mostly authentic and less
                a
                social/sporting club?]]

                I'm not quite caught up on this thread, but I really don't see these as
                being at all mutually exclusive, or even necessarily connected in a more
                of one, less of the other way. Isn't part of the fun of authenticity
                discussing the history with other interested people? Aren't the fencers
                studying Capo Ferro having just as much fun beating each other up as the
                fencers using epees and no particular style? It's certainly that way in
                my barony -- the people interested in authenticity are also part of the
                social/sporting club aspect as well, and probably wouldn't be in the SCA
                without it.

                To some people, having to worry about authenticity takes away from the fun
                -- but that's by no means a given.

                -Qara Qulan
                Outlands


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