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Maler painting--early 16thC Polish/Hungarian styles

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  • E House
    I ve been staring at a painting of a gown I d like to make for a while: http://www.museothyssen.org/ingles/museovirtual/fichas/obraampliada.asp?codigo=609 or
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 6, 2004
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      I've been staring at a painting of a gown I'd like to make for a while:
      http://www.museothyssen.org/ingles/museovirtual/fichas/obraampliada.asp?codigo=609
      or in snipped form:
      http://snipurl.com/b5pp

      (X-post apologies) I've got a lot of rambling here, describing my thoughts
      in trying to figure this gown out. However, if you want to skip it, here's
      my main question: what does the rest of this gown look like, and what part
      of the world might have other gowns in this style?

      The sitter is Anne of Hungary and Bohemia, painted in 1519 by Hans Maler, a
      Tyrolese painter. Anne was of a Polish royal family; her father ruled
      Hungary and Bohemia, and she married Ferdinand of the Habsburgs in 1521.
      Hungary and Bohemia was squeezed in between Austria, a zillion small
      Germanic states of the Holy Empire, and the Turks, so there are all sorts of
      interesting influences there, but.... Whether this is a Polish style, or a
      Hungarian style, or a Bohemian style, or a Tyrolese style, or an Austrian
      style or etcetcetc I do not know! I do know that it's not like anything
      else I'm seeing at this time period and that before I can make it, I really
      need to see at least one or two other vaguely similar things!

      Based on her history, it would appear that she's most likely to be wearing
      the styles of Hungary and Bohemia (which as far as I can tell, was regarded
      as one nation at this time). So, I've been looking at Hungarian works from
      this time, and the styles don't look one bit like Germanic styles--which was
      the first widely-researched area I thought to check, even though apart from
      the hat, nothing about this gown looks Germanic. At least, not c1520
      Germanic. I'm not sure exactly whose styles I'd say the Hungarian stuff I've
      seen DOES look like; perhaps a mix of French and German, but 10-30 years
      behind the times. (For example, I'm seeing v-necked gowns in the 1510s, with
      center front bust pleats like 1470s-90s German gowns!) However, most art
      available from Hungary at this time is heavily religious and allegorical,
      and to me looks like a bunch of not-so-great copies of noticeably earlier
      Franco-Flemish art. In other words, not terribly helpful.

      However, if the styles of the general area was as behind the times as the
      paintings suggest, it wouldn't seem too odd to me if this was more of an
      A-line dress, with no waist seam--my favorite style. And since it's my
      favorite, I may be seeing it where it's not. However, in Hungarian art in
      the early 16thC I am seeing my favorite no-waist-seam square-necked styles,
      so it may not be impossible. My main confusion, of course, is what the gown
      would have looked like from the waist down. On this gown, there are a few
      hints about what might lie below the waist, and to me they spell no waist
      seam. The waist curve on her side is not the sort of curve you see with a
      waist seam; with a waist seam you don't see it curve out _above_ the waist,
      at least not that high up. Also, the gold trim continues below her hands, in
      a line with what's above, but not at the center front as though it were
      trimming a split.

      I know that fashionable German styles at this time had waist seams. But this
      is not exactly a painting of a typical German fashion by a typical German
      painter; you can tell that just by looking. It's nothing like the typical
      Germanic fashions of 1519. Anne was Polish and grew up in Hungary and
      Bohemia; she certainly wouldn't have looked like a Saxon princess. Maler,
      however, was influenced by Durer, so perhaps Durer's paintings are worth
      looking at.

      I'm not saying my mind is completely closed to anything involving waist
      seams. By no means! I'm just saying that the typical German Ren styles, to
      my eye, don't seem to apply to this particular gown, which is my problem in
      the first place! Unfortunately, what it DOES most remind me of is styles
      from western Europe in the 2nd half of the 16thC. Or perhaps early 16thC
      Spain; Anne was engaged to Ferdinand at the time of the painting, and
      Ferdinand was raised in Spain, and a similar neck treatment can be seen in
      Spain at around the same time.

      Enough rambling. Waist seam? No waist seam? Pointy bodice? Straight across?
      Trim placement? Austrian influence? Spanish influence? Any ideas?

      -E the dehydrated
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