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Re: Sleeve Shape Needed

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  • megh_e
    I didn t really know what to call it. Normally I only call that thing in my closet a coat :) Thank you. Your reply is a big help. Meghan E. ... a ... hand,
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 7, 2004
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      I didn't really know what to call it. Normally I only call that thing
      in my closet a "coat" :)

      Thank you. Your reply is a big help.

      Meghan E.



      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rose Jones
      <heather.jones@e...> wrote:
      >
      > If my recollection is correct, the base garment here is a later
      > reconstruction -- only the embroidered bands survive from the
      > original garment. So information about the cut of the current
      > sleeves will only give you insight into the date of the
      > reconstruction (which I don't recall at the moment). I don't think
      > I've ever seen a photo of it in any position other than hanging on
      a
      > form, so the specific construction is a mystery. On the other
      hand,
      > there are a number of other 12-13th c. albs (which is a better
      label
      > for this garment) that could suggest clues. For example, two 12th
      c.
      > albs associated with Thomas Becket (one at Sens cathedral, and one
      at
      > St. Maria Maggiore in Rome) have sleeves with a basically
      rectangular
      > construction (possibly slightly tapered and excessively long in one
      > case) set into a rectangular body panel with a square gusset under
      > the arm. Another style of alb sleeve is seen in the alb associated
      > with St. Louis, which has significantly tapering sleeves (with a
      very
      > wide base) set into a slightly shaped armscye of a more trapezoidal
      > body panel and no underarm gusset. (In effect, the extreme flare
      of
      > the sleeve forms its own underarm gusset.)
      >
      > Tangwystyl
      > --
      > ****
      > Heather Rose Jones
      > heather.jones@e...
      > ****
    • Tiffany Brown / Lady Teffania Tukerton
      ... Of course i had to look it up then... :-) Schraum, Denkmale der Deutschen Konige und Koniginen says (VERY roughly translated): The background silk was
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 7, 2004
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rose Jones
        <heather.jones@e...> wrote:
        > If my recollection is correct, the base garment here is a later
        > reconstruction -- only the embroidered bands survive from the
        > original garment. So information about the cut of the current
        > sleeves will only give you insight into the date of the
        > reconstruction (which I don't recall at the moment). I don't think
        > I've ever seen a photo of it in any position other than hanging on a
        > form, so the specific construction is a mystery.

        Of course i had to look it up then... :-)
        Schraum, "Denkmale der Deutschen Konige und Koniginen" says (VERY
        roughly translated):

        The background silk was changed sometimes over in the various
        differnet restorations, the last of which was in 1955. It says pieces
        of the previous backing material are in Munich (Nationalmusuem) and
        London (V&A).

        The accompanying picture, is of course hanging, and shows no seams
        (unless that is an unusual seam on top of the sleeve).


        The 11th or 12th century "alb of St Bernard of Utterect" seems to show
        the tapering sleeve style described in the diagram I've got of it. (I
        haven't got full details so can't be fully sure of the absence of seams).

        If you are reconstructing this - remember an alb is a religous
        garment. (such as might be worn by a cleric, or by a king at his
        coronation) In particular, the exact shape of the trim at the hem is
        something I've seen frequently in artwork of high ranking clerics, but
        is at least very rare on secular european 12C people's clothing. (the
        extension up around the side seams in particular - hem trim occurs
        with some frequency on high ranking "germans").

        Teffania
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