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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Patron Saints

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  • Elizabeth Walpole
    ... Me too (in fact I chose to base my persona just before the reformation in England because I like the post reformation clothes but being Catholic is
    Message 1 of 94 , Sep 30, 2004
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      > Why would you think it disrespectful to the beliefs of those who do
      > when some of the people who are most vocally encouraging you to use a
      > saints name, etc., are those who do (and who know full well that not
      > everyone involved shares their belief)?
      > Like Christian de Holacombe, mundanely I'm also a faithful,
      > practicing Roman Catholic. Please don't forgo a good medieval
      > recreation for fear of offending me!

      Me too (in fact I chose to base my persona just before the reformation in
      England because I like the post reformation clothes but being Catholic is
      something I really wanted to keep) I just didn't mention it because I didn't
      think that my personal faith was relevant and it could be interpreted as 'on
      behalf of all Christians/Catholics...', when in reality I represent nobody
      but myself. I don't like the concept of using a saint as just an accessory
      to make it sound cool, because I can see it turning into a joke. I suppose
      that the colleges (who are mostly named for saints, e.g. I'm in the college
      of St Aldhelms right now) so far seem to be doing OK, I haven't heard of
      much making a joke out of the saint. Given the possible problems of peoples
      mental association of authenticity with boring and mean people the saint
      would then be associated with such negative behaviour.

      > Indeed, I don't think it would even occur to most Christians who
      > belong to sects that believe in and venerate Christian saints to be
      > offended by the use of a saint's name or the like for an
      > organization, no matter how non-religious in nature (or membership)
      > it may be -- and that's without even considering the historical
      > re-creation aspect.

      I suppose I'm in that category, I didn't think of the possible problem until
      it was pointed out to me.

      <snip> As long as whatever we
      > re-create -- Scottish, German, and/or Christian -- we do it
      > respectfully and without intention to mock, ridicule, disparage,
      > insult or offend, then it's nobody else's business. If some
      > individuals are unreasonably offended, that's their problem, not
      > ours. (If we never did anything that might offend someone we'd never
      > do anything -- and especially we'd never, ever talk about
      > authenticity!)
      Yes I agree here on the so long as it is done respectfully, but without
      knowing what the purpose of this guild would be (so far it's just a vague
      I'm interested in authenticity indicator) and what its activities would be
      then I can't make a judgement as to whether the saint would be ridiculed or

      > In fact, personally I would find it more offensive for people to shun
      > the use of Christian related naming and images and the like for
      > medieval re-creation when their use is appropriate. Treating anything
      > that reflects the pervasive presence of the medieval form of my
      > mundane religion in the European Middle Ages as something to be
      > avoided and erased from our re-creations seems to imply it is
      > something bad and undesirable, like the plague. Now _that_ I would
      > find offensive.

      Ok yes I can see the point and the implication that religion (especially
      Catholicism, but neo paganism can't possibly cause offense*) is bad that you
      can find in a few SCA circles is unpleasant and offensive. But I also
      dislike the concept of people making fun of a saint or associating that
      saint with people who are intentionally rude.
      *NB I do not have a problem with neo pagans I have a problem with people who
      believe any particular religion deserves special status as the only religion
      that should be tolerated at SCA events (though it's not a hugely pervasive
      attitude it does exist). I'm happy for you to go ahead and recreate your
      persona's religion, as long as you acknowledge my right to do the same.
      Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole
      in OR in
      Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia
    • Lisa
      ... when a ... been ... Christians I ... this to ... That s too funny! Just goes to show that treating people with respect and kindness knows no religious
      Message 94 of 94 , Oct 5, 2004
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Cynthia J Ley <cley@j...>
        > Another mildly amusing story:
        > A friend and I were at an event one day running the A&S pavilion
        when a
        > lady of our acquaintance came up to us and said, "You know, I've
        > watching you two for months, and you know, you're the best
        Christians I
        > know."
        > We were both practicing Wiccans at the time, and gently explained
        this to
        > her.
        > Arlys
        That's too funny! Just goes to show that treating people with
        respect and kindness knows no "religious" boundaries.

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