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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Patron Saints

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  • Elizabeth Walpole
    ... Me too (in fact I chose to base my persona just before the reformation in England because I like the post reformation clothes but being Catholic is
    Message 1 of 94 , Sep 30, 2004
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      <snip>
      > Why would you think it disrespectful to the beliefs of those who do
      > when some of the people who are most vocally encouraging you to use a
      > saints name, etc., are those who do (and who know full well that not
      > everyone involved shares their belief)?
      >
      > Like Christian de Holacombe, mundanely I'm also a faithful,
      > practicing Roman Catholic. Please don't forgo a good medieval
      > recreation for fear of offending me!

      Me too (in fact I chose to base my persona just before the reformation in
      England because I like the post reformation clothes but being Catholic is
      something I really wanted to keep) I just didn't mention it because I didn't
      think that my personal faith was relevant and it could be interpreted as 'on
      behalf of all Christians/Catholics...', when in reality I represent nobody
      but myself. I don't like the concept of using a saint as just an accessory
      to make it sound cool, because I can see it turning into a joke. I suppose
      that the colleges (who are mostly named for saints, e.g. I'm in the college
      of St Aldhelms right now) so far seem to be doing OK, I haven't heard of
      much making a joke out of the saint. Given the possible problems of peoples
      mental association of authenticity with boring and mean people the saint
      would then be associated with such negative behaviour.

      > Indeed, I don't think it would even occur to most Christians who
      > belong to sects that believe in and venerate Christian saints to be
      > offended by the use of a saint's name or the like for an
      > organization, no matter how non-religious in nature (or membership)
      > it may be -- and that's without even considering the historical
      > re-creation aspect.

      I suppose I'm in that category, I didn't think of the possible problem until
      it was pointed out to me.


      <snip> As long as whatever we
      > re-create -- Scottish, German, and/or Christian -- we do it
      > respectfully and without intention to mock, ridicule, disparage,
      > insult or offend, then it's nobody else's business. If some
      > individuals are unreasonably offended, that's their problem, not
      > ours. (If we never did anything that might offend someone we'd never
      > do anything -- and especially we'd never, ever talk about
      > authenticity!)
      Yes I agree here on the so long as it is done respectfully, but without
      knowing what the purpose of this guild would be (so far it's just a vague
      I'm interested in authenticity indicator) and what its activities would be
      then I can't make a judgement as to whether the saint would be ridiculed or
      not.

      <snip>
      > In fact, personally I would find it more offensive for people to shun
      > the use of Christian related naming and images and the like for
      > medieval re-creation when their use is appropriate. Treating anything
      > that reflects the pervasive presence of the medieval form of my
      > mundane religion in the European Middle Ages as something to be
      > avoided and erased from our re-creations seems to imply it is
      > something bad and undesirable, like the plague. Now _that_ I would
      > find offensive.
      <snip>

      Ok yes I can see the point and the implication that religion (especially
      Catholicism, but neo paganism can't possibly cause offense*) is bad that you
      can find in a few SCA circles is unpleasant and offensive. But I also
      dislike the concept of people making fun of a saint or associating that
      saint with people who are intentionally rude.
      Elizabeth
      *NB I do not have a problem with neo pagans I have a problem with people who
      believe any particular religion deserves special status as the only religion
      that should be tolerated at SCA events (though it's not a hugely pervasive
      attitude it does exist). I'm happy for you to go ahead and recreate your
      persona's religion, as long as you acknowledge my right to do the same.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ----
      Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole
      in OR in
      Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia
      ewalpole@...
    • Lisa
      ... when a ... been ... Christians I ... this to ... That s too funny! Just goes to show that treating people with respect and kindness knows no religious
      Message 94 of 94 , Oct 5, 2004
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Cynthia J Ley <cley@j...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Another mildly amusing story:
        >
        > A friend and I were at an event one day running the A&S pavilion
        when a
        > lady of our acquaintance came up to us and said, "You know, I've
        been
        > watching you two for months, and you know, you're the best
        Christians I
        > know."
        >
        > We were both practicing Wiccans at the time, and gently explained
        this to
        > her.
        >
        > Arlys
        >
        >
        That's too funny! Just goes to show that treating people with
        respect and kindness knows no "religious" boundaries.

        Ysabel
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