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Re: [Authentic_SCA] SCA Sumptuary Laws and Customs vs. Authenticity

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  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
    In a message dated 9/2/2004 5:14:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 3, 2004
      In a message dated 9/2/2004 5:14:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

      <<I'm not sure. My impression is that the sashes are primarily red, and
      I've noticed non-European persona knights and squires wearing sashes
      before;>>

      If I remember corectly, you were discussing a sash worn aroun the waist
      instead of a belt, rather than a shoulder to hip sash. I'll assume so from here on
      out.

      << I'm currently less concerned with the letter of the law (or
      custom) and more with how people will perceive it. My impression is that
      most people see "red thingy around waist" and think "squire", but this may
      not be true.>>

      While most people may see it that way, in most kingdoms red for a squire's
      belt is not a matter of law, but only of custom, whereas the white belt for
      knights is reserved by Society law. There are some areas, parts of Atlantia for
      examples, where squire's belts are sometimes blue due to the influence of a
      particular household that uses that.

      That said, if you don't make it actually scarlet, there shouldn't be a
      problem. I've been wearing a thin belt of a red-brown shade for quite a few years.
      The merchant who sold it to me cautioned me that some might mistake it for a
      squire's belt, but I've only had one or two people even ask me.

      If it's only custom, not law, and it goes against authenticity, I say go
      ahead and be authentic, just be prepared to explain to people why you are wearing
      what you are wearing and why it's not "against the rules".

      Brangwayna
    • Willie Walter
      ... For awhile, I thought that apprentices belts were typically blue, thanks to a friend who is apprenticed to the matriarch of that same household. (At
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 3, 2004
        --- bronwynmgn@... wrote:
        > While most people may see it that way, in most
        > kingdoms red for a squire's
        > belt is not a matter of law, but only of custom,
        > whereas the white belt for
        > knights is reserved by Society law. There are some
        > areas, parts of Atlantia for
        > examples, where squire's belts are sometimes blue
        > due to the influence of a
        > particular household that uses that.

        For awhile, I thought that apprentices' belts were
        typically blue, thanks to a friend who is apprenticed
        to the matriarch of that same household. (At least,
        I'm guessing it's the same household.) It made sense
        to me at the time: "Her apprentice belt is blue.
        Therefore, most-if-not-all apprentice belts--at least
        in Atlantia--are blue." :) My friend corrected my
        faulty assumption, telling me it's a household custom.


        Peace,
        Grainne ingen Lugdach
        Shire of Roxbury Mill
        Atlantia



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      • Heather Murray
        ... ceramic figurine of a Siamese in a bowl before it:: Now, he s in south central Meridies, so if you happen to be in North Meridies without him nearby, you
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 3, 2004
          cathal@... wrote:

          > I honestly think you're safe with the sash.
          > Anybody bugs you you just refer them to me.
          >
          > Capt Elias
          >
          >
          > Or if you're down Meridies-way just refer them over to me.
          > I enjoy the application of the occasional come-uppance especially
          > if sumptuary laws appear in the argument...
          >
          > Cathal.


          ::Margaret pays obeisance to the visage of Cathal, and lays a small
          ceramic figurine of a Siamese in a bowl before it::

          Now, he's in south central Meridies, so if you happen to be in North
          Meridies without him nearby, you send 'em my way. I'm not as gentle as
          some ladies when it comes to suffering the willingly ignorant, though I
          have some sympathetic understanding of the socially inept. I'll be happy
          to tell them my own story and viewpoint and then endeavor to show them
          the period way to apologize.

          Look, the fact of the matter is, the rules say what they say. If someone
          wants to get offended by something outside the realm of those rules,
          they will do so whether or not the facts of history back you up. In the
          end the best path for your authenticity may be to work to change your
          Kingdom's/Principality's/local area's viewpoint to understand that this
          is period and doesn't violate the sumptuary laws - that it's just a
          custom that arose from what could be some poor drunk fool's
          interpretation of those laws to a newbie who stayed around and still
          spouts it as Gospel. The SCA is young enough that some customs are still
          ugly enough to need their faces changed every once in a while. You might
          butt heads a bit with some folks, outside of those who might balk at
          first, but then move on. With those who *must* argue about it and insist
          on their ways (while not wearing a crown), just part ways knowing that
          you're both right, and likely, you're both wrong as well, on some level
          and in the other's opinion. Eventually, people will either A) accept
          your "new" tradition, or B) decide that you're just a weirdo who insists
          on following the law to the letter and applying your "creativeness" to
          the "anachronism." Well, there's C), but C) can be appealed.

          Grinning wryly,
          Margaret Northwode
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