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RE: [Authentic_SCA] medieval window screens

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  • Wanda Pease
    I suspect these were winter solutions to the no glass/no light problems since both the German farm house and the English cottage got very warm during the
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 4, 2004
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      I suspect these were winter solutions to the no glass/no light problems
      since both the German farm house and the English cottage got very warm
      during the summer and you wanted all the air flow you could get!. However,
      you have a very good point that solutions did exist! I was postulating
      backwards from today, or at least the 80's.

      As I said this is an interesting question, and I bet the answer varied from
      country to country. I'll be interested to see any other answers!

      Thanks,

      Regina
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Talia [mailto:talia@...]
      Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 10:45 AM
      To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Authentic_SCA] medieval window screens


      > Interesting question. I truly doubt that there was anything to be put
      over
      > the windows except shutters (they can be closed with the glass open and
      > provide air flow), when they were open When I was in Germany in
      <<much snippage>>
      > Regina
      > sitting with the blinds drawn having just re-screened the front door!)


      Actually, there was. Oiled/greased cloth was used, as well as
      scraped-paper-thin rawhide stretched over the window frames. The rawhide
      wouldn't have allowed much in the way of air circulation, but both the
      cloth
      and the hide would have let plenty of light in while keeping insects out.

      Talia




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Chris Laning
      ... Two other factors to consider: human tolerance, and difference in hemispheres. Friends of mine have remarked, after visiting England in particular, that
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 4, 2004
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        At 11:21 AM -0700 7/4/04, Wanda Pease wrote:
        >I suspect these were winter solutions to the no glass/no light problems
        >since both the German farm house and the English cottage got very warm
        >during the summer and you wanted all the air flow you could get!. However,
        >you have a very good point that solutions did exist!

        Two other factors to consider: human tolerance, and difference in hemispheres.

        Friends of mine have remarked, after visiting England in particular,
        that you don't _need_ window screens over there as much as in the
        U.S. because there are not the constant swarms of biting insects --
        mosquitos, gnats, blackflies, et cetera.The main insect invaders in
        houses, therefore, tend to be house flies and wasps, which are bigger
        and fewer. Remedies like flypaper and keeping food covered do help
        with those.

        (I can also testify from personal experience that biting insects are
        much less of a problem in California than in the Eastern U.S. -- I
        wouldn't dream of trying to sleep outdoors without a mosquito net in
        a Maine summer, but I've never bothered with one out here.)

        Also, when easy remedies for uncomfortable or annoying conditions
        hadn't been invented yet, people may have been more willing to put up
        with them. My mother always hated to be "drafted" as a teenager to
        help her grandmothers with the fruit canning, because there they were
        in the height of summer, voluntarily spending the day in an even
        hotter, and very steamy, kitchen. She says everyone just assumed that
        hot and sticky was how one felt in the summer, and got on with the
        job.
        --
        _________________________________________________________
        O (Lady) Christian de Holacombe
        | Chris Laning <claning@...>
        + Shire of Windy Meads - Davis, California
        _________________________________________________________
      • Dianne & Greg Stucki
        ... Which would explain why every TV show and movie I ve ever seen (check out that hyperbole!) has shown windows with no screens, and yet, living in Michigan
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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          > (I can also testify from personal experience that biting insects are
          > much less of a problem in California than in the Eastern U.S. -- I
          > wouldn't dream of trying to sleep outdoors without a mosquito net in
          > a Maine summer, but I've never bothered with one out here.)


          Which would explain why every TV show and movie I've ever seen (check out
          that hyperbole!) has shown windows with no screens, and yet, living in
          Michigan and now PA, I've never HAD a window that didn't have screening!

          Laurensa
        • Cynthia J Ley
          Western Oregon has tons of mosquitos in the summer, as well as gnats and no-see-ums. A lot of the area is a wetland--there s a reason they call my part of An
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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            Western Oregon has tons of mosquitos in the summer, as well as gnats and
            no-see-ums. A lot of the area is a wetland--there's a reason they call my
            part of An Tir "Rivers." ;) Screens are a necessity.

            Arlys


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          • bronwynmgn@aol.com
            In a message dated 7/4/2004 12:34:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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              In a message dated 7/4/2004 12:34:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

              <<Was window screening ever used? It wouldn't be that far a reach to put a
              gauze or loose weave linen over a window if you could afford the fabric.>>

              Yeah, but I don't know how well it would hold up. I have heard of using
              oiled...something - was it paper or parchment or fabric - that would let in light,
              but it would probably block most of the breezes as well as bugs.

              Of course, then, there is also the possibility that the preoccupation with
              the odd bug flying through the house being a bad thing is entirely modern...I
              know that things like Le Menagier de Paris do contain instructions for how to
              deal with certain bugs, but it usually seems to be bedbugs or fleas...

              Brangwayna
            • Willow Polson
              ... As a lifelong CA resident, every CA house I ve ever lived in has had windowscreens (except that lovely Victorian, but then we just got the framed kind you
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                At 06:08 AM 7/5/2004 -0400, you wrote:
                >Which would explain why every TV show and movie I've ever seen (check out
                >that hyperbole!) has shown windows with no screens, and yet, living in
                >Michigan and now PA, I've never HAD a window that didn't have screening!

                As a lifelong CA resident, every CA house I've ever lived in has had
                windowscreens (except that lovely Victorian, but then we just got the
                framed kind you place in an open window. I suspect that the reason the TV
                shows and movies don't usually have window screens is because you can't
                film through them, just like the absence of rear view mirrors in movie
                cars. TV and movies aren't real.

                - Willow (Hollywood is just a bunch of regular people, trust me) MacPherson

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                Rev. Willow Polson www.willowsplace.com
                Give my Pagan Paradise Live365 Radio Station a listen!
                http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=willowpolson
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              • wodeford
                ... I just came home from an event site that was rife with ants. After watching a procession around my groundcloth, I left an empty but unrinsed beverage
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Chris Laning <claning@i...>
                  wrote:
                  > Remedies like flypaper and keeping food covered do help
                  > with those.

                  I just came home from an event site that was rife with ants. After
                  watching a procession around my groundcloth, I left an empty but
                  unrinsed beverage bottle lying on its side in a corner OFF the
                  ground cloth. It amused the ants and kept them from dancing bransles
                  on everything else inside the tent.

                  Jehanne de Wodeford
                • Dianne & Greg Stucki
                  ... From: Willow Polson ... They re not? Oh, darn. ;-) What I meant was (besides the fact that you can t have a character climbing
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 6, 2004
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Willow Polson" <willow@...>
                    > As a lifelong CA resident, every CA house I've ever lived in has had
                    > windowscreens (except that lovely Victorian, but then we just got the
                    > framed kind you place in an open window. I suspect that the reason the TV
                    > shows and movies don't usually have window screens is because you can't
                    > film through them, just like the absence of rear view mirrors in movie
                    > cars. TV and movies aren't real.

                    They're not? Oh, darn. ;-)

                    What I meant was (besides the fact that you can't have a character climbing
                    in or out of a screened window, at least not easily) was that people tend to
                    think of things in the way that is most common to them. To someone who
                    doesn't normally use screens, they wouldn't think to put them in. To me, the
                    absence of them is jarring/
                    >
                    > - Willow (Hollywood is just a bunch of regular people, trust me)
                    MacPherson

                    My oldest and dearest friend who introduced me to the SCA is an aspiring
                    screenwriter. If he is at all typical, trust me, they ain't regular people!!
                    lol

                    Laurensa
                  • Willow Polson
                    ... LOL ... Picky picky picky! heehee.... you know what I mean. 8-) - Willow (love playing D&D with a film teacher and 2nd AD, he s nutty) MacPherson
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 6, 2004
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                      At 06:30 AM 7/6/2004 -0400, you wrote:
                      >TV and movies aren't real.
                      >
                      >They're not? Oh, darn. ;-)

                      LOL

                      >My oldest and dearest friend who introduced me to the SCA is an aspiring
                      >screenwriter. If he is at all typical, trust me, they ain't regular people!!
                      >lol

                      Picky picky picky! heehee.... you know what I mean. 8-)

                      - Willow (love playing D&D with a film teacher and 2nd AD, he's nutty)
                      MacPherson

                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Rev. Willow Polson www.willowsplace.com
                      Give my Pagan Paradise Live365 Radio Station a listen!
                      http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=willowpolson
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    • Elizabeth Walpole
                      ... From: Talia To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:45 AM Subject: RE: [Authentic_SCA] medieval window
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 6, 2004
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Talia" <talia@...>
                        To: <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:45 AM
                        Subject: RE: [Authentic_SCA] medieval window screens


                        > > Interesting question. I truly doubt that there was anything to be put
                        over
                        > > the windows except shutters (they can be closed with the glass open and
                        > > provide air flow), when they were open When I was in Germany in
                        > <<much snippage>>
                        > > Regina
                        > > sitting with the blinds drawn having just re-screened the front door!)
                        >
                        >
                        > Actually, there was. Oiled/greased cloth was used, as well as
                        > scraped-paper-thin rawhide stretched over the window frames. The rawhide
                        > wouldn't have allowed much in the way of air circulation, but both the
                        cloth
                        > and the hide would have let plenty of light in while keeping insects out.
                        >
                        > Talia

                        But to my knowledge oilcloth etc. was used as substitutes for glass not as
                        screening to go over the glass windows. In England (and most of Europe to my
                        knowledge) today fly screens are very uncommon as there is very little
                        problem with bugs flying in.
                        Elizabeth
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        ----
                        Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole
                        Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia
                        ewalpole@...

                        People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun
                        is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if
                        there is light from within.
                        Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

                        The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added
                        to the ages of other women.
                        Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib.
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