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RE: [Authentic_SCA] medieval window screens

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  • Talia
    ... ... Actually, there was. Oiled/greased cloth was used, as well as scraped-paper-thin rawhide stretched over the window frames. The
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 4, 2004
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      > Interesting question. I truly doubt that there was anything to be put over
      > the windows except shutters (they can be closed with the glass open and
      > provide air flow), when they were open When I was in Germany in
      <<much snippage>>
      > Regina
      > sitting with the blinds drawn having just re-screened the front door!)


      Actually, there was. Oiled/greased cloth was used, as well as
      scraped-paper-thin rawhide stretched over the window frames. The rawhide
      wouldn't have allowed much in the way of air circulation, but both the cloth
      and the hide would have let plenty of light in while keeping insects out.

      Talia
    • Wanda Pease
      I suspect these were winter solutions to the no glass/no light problems since both the German farm house and the English cottage got very warm during the
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 4, 2004
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        I suspect these were winter solutions to the no glass/no light problems
        since both the German farm house and the English cottage got very warm
        during the summer and you wanted all the air flow you could get!. However,
        you have a very good point that solutions did exist! I was postulating
        backwards from today, or at least the 80's.

        As I said this is an interesting question, and I bet the answer varied from
        country to country. I'll be interested to see any other answers!

        Thanks,

        Regina
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Talia [mailto:talia@...]
        Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 10:45 AM
        To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Authentic_SCA] medieval window screens


        > Interesting question. I truly doubt that there was anything to be put
        over
        > the windows except shutters (they can be closed with the glass open and
        > provide air flow), when they were open When I was in Germany in
        <<much snippage>>
        > Regina
        > sitting with the blinds drawn having just re-screened the front door!)


        Actually, there was. Oiled/greased cloth was used, as well as
        scraped-paper-thin rawhide stretched over the window frames. The rawhide
        wouldn't have allowed much in the way of air circulation, but both the
        cloth
        and the hide would have let plenty of light in while keeping insects out.

        Talia




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Chris Laning
        ... Two other factors to consider: human tolerance, and difference in hemispheres. Friends of mine have remarked, after visiting England in particular, that
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 4, 2004
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          At 11:21 AM -0700 7/4/04, Wanda Pease wrote:
          >I suspect these were winter solutions to the no glass/no light problems
          >since both the German farm house and the English cottage got very warm
          >during the summer and you wanted all the air flow you could get!. However,
          >you have a very good point that solutions did exist!

          Two other factors to consider: human tolerance, and difference in hemispheres.

          Friends of mine have remarked, after visiting England in particular,
          that you don't _need_ window screens over there as much as in the
          U.S. because there are not the constant swarms of biting insects --
          mosquitos, gnats, blackflies, et cetera.The main insect invaders in
          houses, therefore, tend to be house flies and wasps, which are bigger
          and fewer. Remedies like flypaper and keeping food covered do help
          with those.

          (I can also testify from personal experience that biting insects are
          much less of a problem in California than in the Eastern U.S. -- I
          wouldn't dream of trying to sleep outdoors without a mosquito net in
          a Maine summer, but I've never bothered with one out here.)

          Also, when easy remedies for uncomfortable or annoying conditions
          hadn't been invented yet, people may have been more willing to put up
          with them. My mother always hated to be "drafted" as a teenager to
          help her grandmothers with the fruit canning, because there they were
          in the height of summer, voluntarily spending the day in an even
          hotter, and very steamy, kitchen. She says everyone just assumed that
          hot and sticky was how one felt in the summer, and got on with the
          job.
          --
          _________________________________________________________
          O (Lady) Christian de Holacombe
          | Chris Laning <claning@...>
          + Shire of Windy Meads - Davis, California
          _________________________________________________________
        • Dianne & Greg Stucki
          ... Which would explain why every TV show and movie I ve ever seen (check out that hyperbole!) has shown windows with no screens, and yet, living in Michigan
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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            > (I can also testify from personal experience that biting insects are
            > much less of a problem in California than in the Eastern U.S. -- I
            > wouldn't dream of trying to sleep outdoors without a mosquito net in
            > a Maine summer, but I've never bothered with one out here.)


            Which would explain why every TV show and movie I've ever seen (check out
            that hyperbole!) has shown windows with no screens, and yet, living in
            Michigan and now PA, I've never HAD a window that didn't have screening!

            Laurensa
          • Cynthia J Ley
            Western Oregon has tons of mosquitos in the summer, as well as gnats and no-see-ums. A lot of the area is a wetland--there s a reason they call my part of An
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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              Western Oregon has tons of mosquitos in the summer, as well as gnats and
              no-see-ums. A lot of the area is a wetland--there's a reason they call my
              part of An Tir "Rivers." ;) Screens are a necessity.

              Arlys


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            • bronwynmgn@aol.com
              In a message dated 7/4/2004 12:34:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                In a message dated 7/4/2004 12:34:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

                <<Was window screening ever used? It wouldn't be that far a reach to put a
                gauze or loose weave linen over a window if you could afford the fabric.>>

                Yeah, but I don't know how well it would hold up. I have heard of using
                oiled...something - was it paper or parchment or fabric - that would let in light,
                but it would probably block most of the breezes as well as bugs.

                Of course, then, there is also the possibility that the preoccupation with
                the odd bug flying through the house being a bad thing is entirely modern...I
                know that things like Le Menagier de Paris do contain instructions for how to
                deal with certain bugs, but it usually seems to be bedbugs or fleas...

                Brangwayna
              • Willow Polson
                ... As a lifelong CA resident, every CA house I ve ever lived in has had windowscreens (except that lovely Victorian, but then we just got the framed kind you
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                  At 06:08 AM 7/5/2004 -0400, you wrote:
                  >Which would explain why every TV show and movie I've ever seen (check out
                  >that hyperbole!) has shown windows with no screens, and yet, living in
                  >Michigan and now PA, I've never HAD a window that didn't have screening!

                  As a lifelong CA resident, every CA house I've ever lived in has had
                  windowscreens (except that lovely Victorian, but then we just got the
                  framed kind you place in an open window. I suspect that the reason the TV
                  shows and movies don't usually have window screens is because you can't
                  film through them, just like the absence of rear view mirrors in movie
                  cars. TV and movies aren't real.

                  - Willow (Hollywood is just a bunch of regular people, trust me) MacPherson

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  Rev. Willow Polson www.willowsplace.com
                  Give my Pagan Paradise Live365 Radio Station a listen!
                  http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=willowpolson
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                • wodeford
                  ... I just came home from an event site that was rife with ants. After watching a procession around my groundcloth, I left an empty but unrinsed beverage
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Chris Laning <claning@i...>
                    wrote:
                    > Remedies like flypaper and keeping food covered do help
                    > with those.

                    I just came home from an event site that was rife with ants. After
                    watching a procession around my groundcloth, I left an empty but
                    unrinsed beverage bottle lying on its side in a corner OFF the
                    ground cloth. It amused the ants and kept them from dancing bransles
                    on everything else inside the tent.

                    Jehanne de Wodeford
                  • Dianne & Greg Stucki
                    ... From: Willow Polson ... They re not? Oh, darn. ;-) What I meant was (besides the fact that you can t have a character climbing
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 6, 2004
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Willow Polson" <willow@...>
                      > As a lifelong CA resident, every CA house I've ever lived in has had
                      > windowscreens (except that lovely Victorian, but then we just got the
                      > framed kind you place in an open window. I suspect that the reason the TV
                      > shows and movies don't usually have window screens is because you can't
                      > film through them, just like the absence of rear view mirrors in movie
                      > cars. TV and movies aren't real.

                      They're not? Oh, darn. ;-)

                      What I meant was (besides the fact that you can't have a character climbing
                      in or out of a screened window, at least not easily) was that people tend to
                      think of things in the way that is most common to them. To someone who
                      doesn't normally use screens, they wouldn't think to put them in. To me, the
                      absence of them is jarring/
                      >
                      > - Willow (Hollywood is just a bunch of regular people, trust me)
                      MacPherson

                      My oldest and dearest friend who introduced me to the SCA is an aspiring
                      screenwriter. If he is at all typical, trust me, they ain't regular people!!
                      lol

                      Laurensa
                    • Willow Polson
                      ... LOL ... Picky picky picky! heehee.... you know what I mean. 8-) - Willow (love playing D&D with a film teacher and 2nd AD, he s nutty) MacPherson
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 6, 2004
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                        At 06:30 AM 7/6/2004 -0400, you wrote:
                        >TV and movies aren't real.
                        >
                        >They're not? Oh, darn. ;-)

                        LOL

                        >My oldest and dearest friend who introduced me to the SCA is an aspiring
                        >screenwriter. If he is at all typical, trust me, they ain't regular people!!
                        >lol

                        Picky picky picky! heehee.... you know what I mean. 8-)

                        - Willow (love playing D&D with a film teacher and 2nd AD, he's nutty)
                        MacPherson

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        Rev. Willow Polson www.willowsplace.com
                        Give my Pagan Paradise Live365 Radio Station a listen!
                        http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=willowpolson
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      • Elizabeth Walpole
                        ... From: Talia To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:45 AM Subject: RE: [Authentic_SCA] medieval window
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 6, 2004
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                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Talia" <talia@...>
                          To: <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:45 AM
                          Subject: RE: [Authentic_SCA] medieval window screens


                          > > Interesting question. I truly doubt that there was anything to be put
                          over
                          > > the windows except shutters (they can be closed with the glass open and
                          > > provide air flow), when they were open When I was in Germany in
                          > <<much snippage>>
                          > > Regina
                          > > sitting with the blinds drawn having just re-screened the front door!)
                          >
                          >
                          > Actually, there was. Oiled/greased cloth was used, as well as
                          > scraped-paper-thin rawhide stretched over the window frames. The rawhide
                          > wouldn't have allowed much in the way of air circulation, but both the
                          cloth
                          > and the hide would have let plenty of light in while keeping insects out.
                          >
                          > Talia

                          But to my knowledge oilcloth etc. was used as substitutes for glass not as
                          screening to go over the glass windows. In England (and most of Europe to my
                          knowledge) today fly screens are very uncommon as there is very little
                          problem with bugs flying in.
                          Elizabeth
                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          ----
                          Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole
                          Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia
                          ewalpole@...

                          People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun
                          is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if
                          there is light from within.
                          Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

                          The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added
                          to the ages of other women.
                          Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib.
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