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RE: [Authentic_SCA] Re: when did stitching horses come into being?

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  • Karl Brockfeld
    my mistake! By the description, I took the stitching horse to be the same as the shaving horse, which I know very well!! Karl ...
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1 12:35 PM
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      my mistake! By the description, I took the stitching
      horse to be the same as the shaving horse, which I
      know very well!!

      Karl

      --- Jeff Gedney <gedney1@...> wrote:
      > >I'd imagine for a very long time, late period at
      > >least, as the very same tool is known amongst
      > >woodworkers as the "shaving horse", used for
      > trimming
      > >wood down with a rasp or draw knife. There are
      > datable
      > >examples at the oldest settlements in New England,
      > and
      > >these were considered a staple tool in everyone's
      > >home, not just a specialist tool.
      >
      > Hmmm...
      >
      > The stitching horses and shaving horses I've seen
      > seem to be differently constructed, with the
      > stitching horse being quite short in length, having
      > a vertical workpiece clamp that rises between the
      > legs, whereas a shaving horse is longer, and the
      > workpiece clamp is well ahead of the worker allowing
      > the use of a draw shave.
      >
      > Here's a picture of a modern stitching horse
      > www.caledonleather.ca/ stitch-horse.html
      >
      > Here's a picture of a modern Shave horse
      >
      http://www.coedceiriog.co.uk/stewart/s-pix/greenwood/shaving_s.jpg
      >
      > Apart from the fact that both are wood, you sit on
      > them while using them, and use your feet for
      > tension, they dont seem to have a lot of similarity.
      >
      > I also cant see how youd use a shave horse for the
      > stitching, if you were to use one as a stitching
      > horse.
      > the advantage of the stitching horse being that the
      > clamp is basically narrow boards that hold the seam
      > up about chest level, and hold it vertically so that
      > the piece can be sewn right to left.
      > A Shave horse clamp is low, usually thick and blunt,
      > and horizontally mounted. It is designed to hold a
      > piece of wood horizontally so it can be shaved with
      > a drawknife.
      >
      > Looking for illustrations of tradesmen, I see a lot
      > of examples of leather workers sewing stuff whill
      > holding it clamped between the knees, none using
      > anything like a horse, but this is a purely cursory
      > glance on line.
      >
      > People who have done more research into period
      > letherworking (like Marc Carlson) might be able to
      > give you a more definitive answer, but my initial
      > impression is that stitching ponies and horses are
      > probably not period.
      >
      > Marc?
      >
      > Capt Elias
      >
      >
      --------------------------------------------------------------
      > The Purpose of the First Amendment is not to protect
      > only
      > comfortable speech. Such speech needs no protection.
      > It is,
      > rather, the daring, the profound, the probitive, and
      > yes, the
      > offensive, that needs that shield. For nothing
      > significant,
      > not in art, culture, or even in politics, has ever
      > arisen
      > from pandering to the whims of majority.
      >
      >
      >




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    • Jeff Gedney
      ... no Problem, I thought it was something like that. (I am looking to make a Shave horse for myself quite soon. After that I will have used both tools and can
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1 2:40 PM
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        >my mistake! By the description, I took the stitching
        >horse to be the same as the shaving horse, which I
        >know very well!!
        >
        >Karl

        no Problem, I thought it was something like that.
        (I am looking to make a Shave horse for myself quite soon. After that I will have used both tools and can tell you for certain how interchangeable they are)

        Oh, and here's that sitich horse link (Correct, this time):
        http://www.caledonleather.ca/stitch-horse.html



        Capt Elias

        --------------------------------------------------------------
        The Purpose of the First Amendment is not to protect only
        comfortable speech. Such speech needs no protection. It is,
        rather, the daring, the profound, the probitive, and yes, the
        offensive, that needs that shield. For nothing significant,
        not in art, culture, or even in politics, has ever arisen
        from pandering to the whims of majority.
      • Willow Polson
        ... I ve done woodworking for a very long time, including some period woodworking, and have never heard that a shave horse was a staple in everyone s home.
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 1 5:40 PM
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          At 09:13 AM 7/1/2004 -0700, you wrote:
          > the "shaving horse", used for trimming
          >wood down with a rasp or draw knife. There are datable
          >examples at the oldest settlements in New England, and
          >these were considered a staple tool in everyone's
          >home, not just a specialist tool.

          I've done woodworking for a very long time, including some period
          woodworking, and have never heard that a shave horse was a staple in
          everyone's home. What is your source for that information?

          - Willow MacPherson


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        • Marc Carlson
          ... I m pretty sure they are post-Period. They aren t in Jost Amon s book that I am aware of - however, you will notice the shoemakers in the picture on them
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 3 10:28 PM
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            > At 10:42 AM +0000 6/30/04, Shane Stainton wrote:
            >ie are they period?
            >Id like to fine tune my encampment and my demo work, including my
            >tools of the trade but cant seem to find any history on the stitching
            >horse. (leatherwork for those that are wondering what the heck im
            >talking about)

            I'm pretty sure they are post-Period. They aren't in Jost Amon's book
            that I am aware of - however, you will notice the shoemakers in the
            picture on them are using a stirrup for sewing leather (A stirrup is a
            strip of leather or rope around the leg, used to hold the work to a
            sewing block held on the thigh). The earliest I can recall seeing a
            stitching horse is Garsault in 1762.

            Marc
          • Marc Carlson
            ... I m here, I m here (just off line a lot lately while I m trying to get work done on this stupid book). The clamp (clam) held between the knees does seem to
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 3 10:33 PM
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              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Gedney" <gedney1@i...> wrote:
              > Looking for illustrations of tradesmen, I see a lot of examples of
              > leather workers sewing stuff whill holding it clamped between the
              > knees, none using anything like a horse, but this is a purely
              > cursory glance on line.
              > People who have done more research into period letherworking (like
              > Marc Carlson) might be able to give you a more definitive answer,
              > but my initial impression is that stitching ponies and horses are
              > probably not period.
              > Marc?

              I'm here, I'm here (just off line a lot lately while I'm trying to get
              work done on this stupid book).

              The clamp (clam) held between the knees does seem to be the version
              that appears in Garsault.

              Marc/Diarmaid
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