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RE: [Authentic_SCA] Re: when did stitching horses come into being?

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  • Jeff Gedney
    ... Hmmm... The stitching horses and shaving horses I ve seen seem to be differently constructed, with the stitching horse being quite short in length, having
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2004
      >I'd imagine for a very long time, late period at
      >least, as the very same tool is known amongst
      >woodworkers as the "shaving horse", used for trimming
      >wood down with a rasp or draw knife. There are datable
      >examples at the oldest settlements in New England, and
      >these were considered a staple tool in everyone's
      >home, not just a specialist tool.

      Hmmm...

      The stitching horses and shaving horses I've seen seem to be differently constructed, with the stitching horse being quite short in length, having a vertical workpiece clamp that rises between the legs, whereas a shaving horse is longer, and the workpiece clamp is well ahead of the worker allowing the use of a draw shave.

      Here's a picture of a modern stitching horse
      www.caledonleather.ca/ stitch-horse.html

      Here's a picture of a modern Shave horse
      http://www.coedceiriog.co.uk/stewart/s-pix/greenwood/shaving_s.jpg

      Apart from the fact that both are wood, you sit on them while using them, and use your feet for tension, they dont seem to have a lot of similarity.

      I also cant see how youd use a shave horse for the stitching, if you were to use one as a stitching horse.
      the advantage of the stitching horse being that the clamp is basically narrow boards that hold the seam up about chest level, and hold it vertically so that the piece can be sewn right to left.
      A Shave horse clamp is low, usually thick and blunt, and horizontally mounted. It is designed to hold a piece of wood horizontally so it can be shaved with a drawknife.

      Looking for illustrations of tradesmen, I see a lot of examples of leather workers sewing stuff whill holding it clamped between the knees, none using anything like a horse, but this is a purely cursory glance on line.

      People who have done more research into period letherworking (like Marc Carlson) might be able to give you a more definitive answer, but my initial impression is that stitching ponies and horses are probably not period.

      Marc?

      Capt Elias

      --------------------------------------------------------------
      The Purpose of the First Amendment is not to protect only
      comfortable speech. Such speech needs no protection. It is,
      rather, the daring, the profound, the probitive, and yes, the
      offensive, that needs that shield. For nothing significant,
      not in art, culture, or even in politics, has ever arisen
      from pandering to the whims of majority.
    • Karl Brockfeld
      my mistake! By the description, I took the stitching horse to be the same as the shaving horse, which I know very well!! Karl ...
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2004
        my mistake! By the description, I took the stitching
        horse to be the same as the shaving horse, which I
        know very well!!

        Karl

        --- Jeff Gedney <gedney1@...> wrote:
        > >I'd imagine for a very long time, late period at
        > >least, as the very same tool is known amongst
        > >woodworkers as the "shaving horse", used for
        > trimming
        > >wood down with a rasp or draw knife. There are
        > datable
        > >examples at the oldest settlements in New England,
        > and
        > >these were considered a staple tool in everyone's
        > >home, not just a specialist tool.
        >
        > Hmmm...
        >
        > The stitching horses and shaving horses I've seen
        > seem to be differently constructed, with the
        > stitching horse being quite short in length, having
        > a vertical workpiece clamp that rises between the
        > legs, whereas a shaving horse is longer, and the
        > workpiece clamp is well ahead of the worker allowing
        > the use of a draw shave.
        >
        > Here's a picture of a modern stitching horse
        > www.caledonleather.ca/ stitch-horse.html
        >
        > Here's a picture of a modern Shave horse
        >
        http://www.coedceiriog.co.uk/stewart/s-pix/greenwood/shaving_s.jpg
        >
        > Apart from the fact that both are wood, you sit on
        > them while using them, and use your feet for
        > tension, they dont seem to have a lot of similarity.
        >
        > I also cant see how youd use a shave horse for the
        > stitching, if you were to use one as a stitching
        > horse.
        > the advantage of the stitching horse being that the
        > clamp is basically narrow boards that hold the seam
        > up about chest level, and hold it vertically so that
        > the piece can be sewn right to left.
        > A Shave horse clamp is low, usually thick and blunt,
        > and horizontally mounted. It is designed to hold a
        > piece of wood horizontally so it can be shaved with
        > a drawknife.
        >
        > Looking for illustrations of tradesmen, I see a lot
        > of examples of leather workers sewing stuff whill
        > holding it clamped between the knees, none using
        > anything like a horse, but this is a purely cursory
        > glance on line.
        >
        > People who have done more research into period
        > letherworking (like Marc Carlson) might be able to
        > give you a more definitive answer, but my initial
        > impression is that stitching ponies and horses are
        > probably not period.
        >
        > Marc?
        >
        > Capt Elias
        >
        >
        --------------------------------------------------------------
        > The Purpose of the First Amendment is not to protect
        > only
        > comfortable speech. Such speech needs no protection.
        > It is,
        > rather, the daring, the profound, the probitive, and
        > yes, the
        > offensive, that needs that shield. For nothing
        > significant,
        > not in art, culture, or even in politics, has ever
        > arisen
        > from pandering to the whims of majority.
        >
        >
        >




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      • Jeff Gedney
        ... no Problem, I thought it was something like that. (I am looking to make a Shave horse for myself quite soon. After that I will have used both tools and can
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 1, 2004
          >my mistake! By the description, I took the stitching
          >horse to be the same as the shaving horse, which I
          >know very well!!
          >
          >Karl

          no Problem, I thought it was something like that.
          (I am looking to make a Shave horse for myself quite soon. After that I will have used both tools and can tell you for certain how interchangeable they are)

          Oh, and here's that sitich horse link (Correct, this time):
          http://www.caledonleather.ca/stitch-horse.html



          Capt Elias

          --------------------------------------------------------------
          The Purpose of the First Amendment is not to protect only
          comfortable speech. Such speech needs no protection. It is,
          rather, the daring, the profound, the probitive, and yes, the
          offensive, that needs that shield. For nothing significant,
          not in art, culture, or even in politics, has ever arisen
          from pandering to the whims of majority.
        • Willow Polson
          ... I ve done woodworking for a very long time, including some period woodworking, and have never heard that a shave horse was a staple in everyone s home.
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 1, 2004
            At 09:13 AM 7/1/2004 -0700, you wrote:
            > the "shaving horse", used for trimming
            >wood down with a rasp or draw knife. There are datable
            >examples at the oldest settlements in New England, and
            >these were considered a staple tool in everyone's
            >home, not just a specialist tool.

            I've done woodworking for a very long time, including some period
            woodworking, and have never heard that a shave horse was a staple in
            everyone's home. What is your source for that information?

            - Willow MacPherson


            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Rev. Willow Polson www.willowsplace.com
            Give my Pagan Paradise Live365 Radio Station a listen!
            http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=willowpolson
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          • Marc Carlson
            ... I m pretty sure they are post-Period. They aren t in Jost Amon s book that I am aware of - however, you will notice the shoemakers in the picture on them
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 3, 2004
              > At 10:42 AM +0000 6/30/04, Shane Stainton wrote:
              >ie are they period?
              >Id like to fine tune my encampment and my demo work, including my
              >tools of the trade but cant seem to find any history on the stitching
              >horse. (leatherwork for those that are wondering what the heck im
              >talking about)

              I'm pretty sure they are post-Period. They aren't in Jost Amon's book
              that I am aware of - however, you will notice the shoemakers in the
              picture on them are using a stirrup for sewing leather (A stirrup is a
              strip of leather or rope around the leg, used to hold the work to a
              sewing block held on the thigh). The earliest I can recall seeing a
              stitching horse is Garsault in 1762.

              Marc
            • Marc Carlson
              ... I m here, I m here (just off line a lot lately while I m trying to get work done on this stupid book). The clamp (clam) held between the knees does seem to
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 3, 2004
                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Gedney" <gedney1@i...> wrote:
                > Looking for illustrations of tradesmen, I see a lot of examples of
                > leather workers sewing stuff whill holding it clamped between the
                > knees, none using anything like a horse, but this is a purely
                > cursory glance on line.
                > People who have done more research into period letherworking (like
                > Marc Carlson) might be able to give you a more definitive answer,
                > but my initial impression is that stitching ponies and horses are
                > probably not period.
                > Marc?

                I'm here, I'm here (just off line a lot lately while I'm trying to get
                work done on this stupid book).

                The clamp (clam) held between the knees does seem to be the version
                that appears in Garsault.

                Marc/Diarmaid
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