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RE: [Authentic_SCA] Taking Hits

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  • Jeff Gedney
    ... I think, heart, that he was talking about my idea of just ceding the bout unfought, (a kind of Shunning behavior) until they realize that they are playing
    Message 1 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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      >>
      >Are you talking live-steel work? Do you /really/ want to ratchet
      >up enough for a nit wit to accept the blow? Knowing how hard
      >that may need to be? May I suggest that you say to them
      >first: "do you really want me to hit you harder?". And make sure
      >you have a witness.

      I think, heart, that he was talking about my idea of just ceding the bout unfought, (a kind of Shunning behavior) until they realize that they are playing "wrong", and get the clue.

      Capt Elias

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    • Ro
      First question should be - WHY do you fight? Do you fight only to win, or to do honour to the one who inspires you? If you fight only to win, then by all
      Message 2 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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        First question should be - WHY do you fight? Do you fight only to win, or
        to do honour to the one who inspires you?

        If you fight only to win, then by all means, lie cheat steal to obtain your
        goals. That's what rhino hiders do.

        If you fight to do honour to the one who inspires you, then your actions
        should be dictated by what achieves that honouring.

        From your missive, I rather think you fight for the later as opposed to the
        former. Vivat, my lord, for that.

        Ro

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      • Alanfrize@aol.com
        In a message dated 03/05/2004 21:24:27 GMT Standard Time, ... No, I am talking about walking off the field. I have used live-steel weapons for 14 years. I
        Message 3 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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          In a message dated 03/05/2004 21:24:27 GMT Standard Time,
          marshamclean@... writes:

          > Are you talking live-steel work? Do you /really/ want to ratchet up
          > enough for a nit wit to accept the blow? Knowing how hard that may need
          > to be? May I suggest that you say to them first: "do you really want me
          > to hit you harder?". And make sure you have a witness.
          >
          > Madinia
          >

          No, I am talking about walking off the field.

          I have used 'live-steel' weapons for 14 years. I have yet to inflict or see
          an injury.

          Alan


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alanfrize@aol.com
          In a message dated 03/05/2004 22:35:02 GMT Standard Time, ladyro@comcast.net ... Because I enjoy it, simple as that. However, to me, it s always been a
          Message 4 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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            In a message dated 03/05/2004 22:35:02 GMT Standard Time, ladyro@...
            writes:

            > First question should be - WHY do you fight? Do you fight only to win, or
            > to do honour to the one who inspires you?
            >

            Because I enjoy it, simple as that. However, to me, it's always been a
            Gentleman's agreement about taking hits - a case of "You do, so therefore, so do
            I".

            ALan


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • MMM
            ... or see ... Ah, I misread the statement. I know live steel is safe, I have buddies in a local Medieval Martial Arts group and I ve seen them train. Walking
            Message 5 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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              > No, I am talking about walking off the field.
              > I have used 'live-steel' weapons for 14 years. I have yet to inflict
              or see
              > an injury.
              > Alan
              >
              Ah, I misread the statement. I know live steel is safe, I have buddies
              in a local Medieval Martial Arts group and I've seen them train.
              Walking off the field will make the point admirably.

              Madinia
            • Cynthia J Ley
              ... Talk to the marshal maybe? Or are they not paying as careful attention as they ought? A very dear friend, God rest him, was a senior marshal here in An
              Message 6 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                > So my question is this: What's the best thing to do? I was really
                > annoyed
                > at the end. I'm a fighter - I even train others, but how can I
                > enjoy an event
                > when there's this kind of thing going on, or more importantly, what
                > can be
                > done? I've heard of other groups having this problem with this same
                > society.
                >
                > Alan

                Talk to the marshal maybe? Or are they not paying as careful attention as
                they ought?

                A very dear friend, God rest him, was a senior marshal here in An Tir.
                One time he caught a fighter not accepting head blows. He called a hold,
                indicated that the fighter come over to him, and squatted down on the
                ground, giving the hapless fighter no choice but to do the same. He asked
                the fellow to remove his helm, and without saying another word, looked
                carefully at him from one eye to the other. The fighter, getting nervous,
                asked, "Is something the matter, my Lord Marshal?" The marshal replied,
                "I'm checking to see if your pupils are equal and reactive," stood up,
                and resumed the fight.

                The guy went down on the next shot.

                Arlys



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              • aheilvei
                ... up,and resumed the fight. ... Great response to the problem. Despina
                Message 7 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                  > "I'm checking to see if your pupils are equal and reactive," stood
                  up,and resumed the fight.
                  >
                  > The guy went down on the next shot.
                  >


                  Great response to the problem.

                  Despina
                • Alanfrize@aol.com
                  In a message dated 04/05/2004 16:09:11 GMT Standard Time, cley@juno.com ... Unless it s a major event, we don t use Marshalls, which is part of the problem.
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                    In a message dated 04/05/2004 16:09:11 GMT Standard Time, cley@...
                    writes:

                    > Talk to the marshal maybe? Or are they not paying as careful attention as
                    > they ought?
                    >

                    Unless it's a major event, we don't use Marshalls, which is part of the
                    problem.

                    Alan


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • aheilvei
                    ... of the problem. ... I thought this one was society wide, but I know that in the Middle Kingdom, you can t have a fighter practice or anything of the sort
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                      > Unless it's a major event, we don't use Marshalls, which is part
                      of the problem.
                      >
                      > Alan
                      >

                      I thought this one was society wide, but I know that in the Middle
                      Kingdom, you can't have a fighter practice or anything of the sort
                      without a marshal present.

                      Despina
                    • Alanfrize@aol.com
                      In a message dated 04/05/2004 17:53:37 GMT Standard Time, aheilvei@uiuc.edu ... Despina, I was talking about a UK re-enactment event, although from the
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                        In a message dated 04/05/2004 17:53:37 GMT Standard Time, aheilvei@...
                        writes:

                        > I thought this one was society wide, but I know that in the Middle
                        > Kingdom, you can't have a fighter practice or anything of the sort
                        > without a marshal present.
                        >
                        > Despina
                        >

                        Despina, I was talking about a UK re-enactment event, although from the
                        responses I've seen, it seems both the SCA and re-enactment groups commonly get
                        this problem.

                        Alan


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • aheilvei
                        ... from the responses I ve seen, it seems both the SCA and re- enactment groups commonly get this problem. ... Having people rhino though shots is a
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                          > Despina, I was talking about a UK re-enactment event, although
                          from the responses I've seen, it seems both the SCA and re-
                          enactment groups commonly get this problem.
                          >
                          >


                          Having people 'rhino' though shots is a problem that's always going
                          to occur when the adreneline flows, IMO. Not having a marshal on
                          the field makes it worse, IMO. I've seen marshals pull dukes out of
                          fights because the duke in question wouldn't take a hit. It happens -
                          it's part of why the marshals are there and why they should be
                          there. If your group is having marshal activities and no one to
                          say, "halt", that is going to cause injuries because there is no
                          authority on the field to make them stop bad behavior.

                          Despina
                        • Alanfrize@aol.com
                          In a message dated 04/05/2004 18:06:25 GMT Standard Time, aheilvei@uiuc.edu ... We have Marshalls at larger battles, however this was more of an informal thing
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                            In a message dated 04/05/2004 18:06:25 GMT Standard Time, aheilvei@...
                            writes:

                            > Having people 'rhino' though shots is a problem that's always going
                            > to occur when the adreneline flows, IMO. Not having a marshal on
                            > the field makes it worse, IMO. I've seen marshals pull dukes out of
                            > fights because the duke in question wouldn't take a hit. It happens -
                            > it's part of why the marshals are there and why they should be
                            > there. If your group is having marshal activities and no one to
                            > say, "halt", that is going to cause injuries because there is no
                            > authority on the field to make them stop bad behavior.
                            >
                            > Despina
                            >

                            We have Marshalls at larger battles, however this was more of an informal
                            thing - it was mainly a living history event, with the added bonus of some
                            fighting for those that wanted it.

                            I have seen Marshalls at larger events pull people put of combat for not
                            taking their hits - usually clankies (someone in full harness) who seem to think
                            they're invincible. However this was against a society I used to have a lot of
                            respect for, now I see them in a diferent light.

                            Alan


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • MMM
                            I believe Alan is talking about his Scottish reenactment group, Gadgeddlar. Non SCA IIRC. Madinia
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                              I believe Alan is talking about his Scottish reenactment group,
                              Gadgeddlar. Non SCA IIRC.

                              Madinia

                              > From: aheilvei [mailto:aheilvei@...]
                              > > Unless it's a major event, we don't use Marshalls, which is part
                              > of the problem.
                              > >
                              > > Alan
                              > >
                              >
                              > I thought this one was society wide, but I know that in the Middle
                              > Kingdom, you can't have a fighter practice or anything of the sort
                              > without a marshal present.
                              >
                              > Despina
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                            • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                              In a message dated 5/3/2004 7:36:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                                In a message dated 5/3/2004 7:36:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                                Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

                                <<So my question is this: What's the best thing to do? I was really annoyed
                                at the end. I'm a fighter - I even train others, but how can I enjoy an
                                event
                                when there's this kind of thing going on, or more importantly, what can be
                                done? I've heard of other groups having this problem with this same
                                society.>>

                                If you see that group is in the line, refuse to fight them - politely - and
                                explain why. Get your whole group and the other groups who have been
                                complaining about them to do the same thing. This may help them to understand that
                                they are not making things fun for the other participants, and that the other
                                participants don't want to play with them because of it.
                                If this isn't an option because the events in question are public demos and
                                the show must go on, then get representatives of all the groups together and
                                meet with them about it.

                                Brangwayna
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