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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Taking Hits

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  • Alanfrize@aol.com
    In a message dated 03/05/2004 20:15:02 GMT Standard Time, gedney1@iconn.net ... I like that idea! I think I ll give it a try. Afraid that the whole thing got
    Message 1 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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      In a message dated 03/05/2004 20:15:02 GMT Standard Time, gedney1@...
      writes:

      > A highly ranked fighter of my acquaintence has a different schema, which
      > is, basically to "ratchet up the calibration" until he pounds the guy into
      > mush. Not my style, that.
      >
      > Personally if both your groups simply ceded the field unfought rather than
      > face these guys, and then gone off and had your own fun, where they can see
      > it, a serious clue would have been delivered. If in a melee, you all just yield
      > every bout unfought if you face one such.
      > After a while they start to feel ostracized for all that they are winning.
      > Clue delivered.
      >

      I like that idea! I think I'll give it a try.

      Afraid that the whole thing got under my skin - I've been a fighter since I
      started 14 years ago, and not taking hits is, to me at least, one of the worst
      offences in re-enactment.

      Alan


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    • MMM
      ... Are you talking live-steel work? Do you /really/ want to ratchet up enough for a nit wit to accept the blow? Knowing how hard that may need to be? May I
      Message 2 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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        > From: Alanfrize@... [mailto:Alanfrize@...]
        > I like that idea! I think I'll give it a try.
        >
        Are you talking live-steel work? Do you /really/ want to ratchet up
        enough for a nit wit to accept the blow? Knowing how hard that may need
        to be? May I suggest that you say to them first: "do you really want me
        to hit you harder?". And make sure you have a witness.

        Madinia
      • Jeff Gedney
        ... I think, heart, that he was talking about my idea of just ceding the bout unfought, (a kind of Shunning behavior) until they realize that they are playing
        Message 3 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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          >>
          >Are you talking live-steel work? Do you /really/ want to ratchet
          >up enough for a nit wit to accept the blow? Knowing how hard
          >that may need to be? May I suggest that you say to them
          >first: "do you really want me to hit you harder?". And make sure
          >you have a witness.

          I think, heart, that he was talking about my idea of just ceding the bout unfought, (a kind of Shunning behavior) until they realize that they are playing "wrong", and get the clue.

          Capt Elias

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        • Ro
          First question should be - WHY do you fight? Do you fight only to win, or to do honour to the one who inspires you? If you fight only to win, then by all
          Message 4 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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            First question should be - WHY do you fight? Do you fight only to win, or
            to do honour to the one who inspires you?

            If you fight only to win, then by all means, lie cheat steal to obtain your
            goals. That's what rhino hiders do.

            If you fight to do honour to the one who inspires you, then your actions
            should be dictated by what achieves that honouring.

            From your missive, I rather think you fight for the later as opposed to the
            former. Vivat, my lord, for that.

            Ro

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          • Alanfrize@aol.com
            In a message dated 03/05/2004 21:24:27 GMT Standard Time, ... No, I am talking about walking off the field. I have used live-steel weapons for 14 years. I
            Message 5 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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              In a message dated 03/05/2004 21:24:27 GMT Standard Time,
              marshamclean@... writes:

              > Are you talking live-steel work? Do you /really/ want to ratchet up
              > enough for a nit wit to accept the blow? Knowing how hard that may need
              > to be? May I suggest that you say to them first: "do you really want me
              > to hit you harder?". And make sure you have a witness.
              >
              > Madinia
              >

              No, I am talking about walking off the field.

              I have used 'live-steel' weapons for 14 years. I have yet to inflict or see
              an injury.

              Alan


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            • Alanfrize@aol.com
              In a message dated 03/05/2004 22:35:02 GMT Standard Time, ladyro@comcast.net ... Because I enjoy it, simple as that. However, to me, it s always been a
              Message 6 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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                In a message dated 03/05/2004 22:35:02 GMT Standard Time, ladyro@...
                writes:

                > First question should be - WHY do you fight? Do you fight only to win, or
                > to do honour to the one who inspires you?
                >

                Because I enjoy it, simple as that. However, to me, it's always been a
                Gentleman's agreement about taking hits - a case of "You do, so therefore, so do
                I".

                ALan


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              • MMM
                ... or see ... Ah, I misread the statement. I know live steel is safe, I have buddies in a local Medieval Martial Arts group and I ve seen them train. Walking
                Message 7 of 19 , May 3, 2004
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                  > No, I am talking about walking off the field.
                  > I have used 'live-steel' weapons for 14 years. I have yet to inflict
                  or see
                  > an injury.
                  > Alan
                  >
                  Ah, I misread the statement. I know live steel is safe, I have buddies
                  in a local Medieval Martial Arts group and I've seen them train.
                  Walking off the field will make the point admirably.

                  Madinia
                • Cynthia J Ley
                  ... Talk to the marshal maybe? Or are they not paying as careful attention as they ought? A very dear friend, God rest him, was a senior marshal here in An
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                    > So my question is this: What's the best thing to do? I was really
                    > annoyed
                    > at the end. I'm a fighter - I even train others, but how can I
                    > enjoy an event
                    > when there's this kind of thing going on, or more importantly, what
                    > can be
                    > done? I've heard of other groups having this problem with this same
                    > society.
                    >
                    > Alan

                    Talk to the marshal maybe? Or are they not paying as careful attention as
                    they ought?

                    A very dear friend, God rest him, was a senior marshal here in An Tir.
                    One time he caught a fighter not accepting head blows. He called a hold,
                    indicated that the fighter come over to him, and squatted down on the
                    ground, giving the hapless fighter no choice but to do the same. He asked
                    the fellow to remove his helm, and without saying another word, looked
                    carefully at him from one eye to the other. The fighter, getting nervous,
                    asked, "Is something the matter, my Lord Marshal?" The marshal replied,
                    "I'm checking to see if your pupils are equal and reactive," stood up,
                    and resumed the fight.

                    The guy went down on the next shot.

                    Arlys



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                  • aheilvei
                    ... up,and resumed the fight. ... Great response to the problem. Despina
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                      > "I'm checking to see if your pupils are equal and reactive," stood
                      up,and resumed the fight.
                      >
                      > The guy went down on the next shot.
                      >


                      Great response to the problem.

                      Despina
                    • Alanfrize@aol.com
                      In a message dated 04/05/2004 16:09:11 GMT Standard Time, cley@juno.com ... Unless it s a major event, we don t use Marshalls, which is part of the problem.
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                        In a message dated 04/05/2004 16:09:11 GMT Standard Time, cley@...
                        writes:

                        > Talk to the marshal maybe? Or are they not paying as careful attention as
                        > they ought?
                        >

                        Unless it's a major event, we don't use Marshalls, which is part of the
                        problem.

                        Alan


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • aheilvei
                        ... of the problem. ... I thought this one was society wide, but I know that in the Middle Kingdom, you can t have a fighter practice or anything of the sort
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                          > Unless it's a major event, we don't use Marshalls, which is part
                          of the problem.
                          >
                          > Alan
                          >

                          I thought this one was society wide, but I know that in the Middle
                          Kingdom, you can't have a fighter practice or anything of the sort
                          without a marshal present.

                          Despina
                        • Alanfrize@aol.com
                          In a message dated 04/05/2004 17:53:37 GMT Standard Time, aheilvei@uiuc.edu ... Despina, I was talking about a UK re-enactment event, although from the
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                            In a message dated 04/05/2004 17:53:37 GMT Standard Time, aheilvei@...
                            writes:

                            > I thought this one was society wide, but I know that in the Middle
                            > Kingdom, you can't have a fighter practice or anything of the sort
                            > without a marshal present.
                            >
                            > Despina
                            >

                            Despina, I was talking about a UK re-enactment event, although from the
                            responses I've seen, it seems both the SCA and re-enactment groups commonly get
                            this problem.

                            Alan


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • aheilvei
                            ... from the responses I ve seen, it seems both the SCA and re- enactment groups commonly get this problem. ... Having people rhino though shots is a
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                              > Despina, I was talking about a UK re-enactment event, although
                              from the responses I've seen, it seems both the SCA and re-
                              enactment groups commonly get this problem.
                              >
                              >


                              Having people 'rhino' though shots is a problem that's always going
                              to occur when the adreneline flows, IMO. Not having a marshal on
                              the field makes it worse, IMO. I've seen marshals pull dukes out of
                              fights because the duke in question wouldn't take a hit. It happens -
                              it's part of why the marshals are there and why they should be
                              there. If your group is having marshal activities and no one to
                              say, "halt", that is going to cause injuries because there is no
                              authority on the field to make them stop bad behavior.

                              Despina
                            • Alanfrize@aol.com
                              In a message dated 04/05/2004 18:06:25 GMT Standard Time, aheilvei@uiuc.edu ... We have Marshalls at larger battles, however this was more of an informal thing
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                                In a message dated 04/05/2004 18:06:25 GMT Standard Time, aheilvei@...
                                writes:

                                > Having people 'rhino' though shots is a problem that's always going
                                > to occur when the adreneline flows, IMO. Not having a marshal on
                                > the field makes it worse, IMO. I've seen marshals pull dukes out of
                                > fights because the duke in question wouldn't take a hit. It happens -
                                > it's part of why the marshals are there and why they should be
                                > there. If your group is having marshal activities and no one to
                                > say, "halt", that is going to cause injuries because there is no
                                > authority on the field to make them stop bad behavior.
                                >
                                > Despina
                                >

                                We have Marshalls at larger battles, however this was more of an informal
                                thing - it was mainly a living history event, with the added bonus of some
                                fighting for those that wanted it.

                                I have seen Marshalls at larger events pull people put of combat for not
                                taking their hits - usually clankies (someone in full harness) who seem to think
                                they're invincible. However this was against a society I used to have a lot of
                                respect for, now I see them in a diferent light.

                                Alan


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                              • MMM
                                I believe Alan is talking about his Scottish reenactment group, Gadgeddlar. Non SCA IIRC. Madinia
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                                  I believe Alan is talking about his Scottish reenactment group,
                                  Gadgeddlar. Non SCA IIRC.

                                  Madinia

                                  > From: aheilvei [mailto:aheilvei@...]
                                  > > Unless it's a major event, we don't use Marshalls, which is part
                                  > of the problem.
                                  > >
                                  > > Alan
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > I thought this one was society wide, but I know that in the Middle
                                  > Kingdom, you can't have a fighter practice or anything of the sort
                                  > without a marshal present.
                                  >
                                  > Despina
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 5/3/2004 7:36:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 4, 2004
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                                    In a message dated 5/3/2004 7:36:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                                    Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

                                    <<So my question is this: What's the best thing to do? I was really annoyed
                                    at the end. I'm a fighter - I even train others, but how can I enjoy an
                                    event
                                    when there's this kind of thing going on, or more importantly, what can be
                                    done? I've heard of other groups having this problem with this same
                                    society.>>

                                    If you see that group is in the line, refuse to fight them - politely - and
                                    explain why. Get your whole group and the other groups who have been
                                    complaining about them to do the same thing. This may help them to understand that
                                    they are not making things fun for the other participants, and that the other
                                    participants don't want to play with them because of it.
                                    If this isn't an option because the events in question are public demos and
                                    the show must go on, then get representatives of all the groups together and
                                    meet with them about it.

                                    Brangwayna
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