Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Most authentic kingdom?

Expand Messages
  • Tom Knighton
    I was curious earlier today at worked and was wondering which kingdom was the most authentic and or did the most to promote authenticity. Personally, I
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 25, 2004
      I was curious earlier today at worked and was wondering which kingdom was
      the most authentic and or did the most to promote authenticity. Personally,
      I haven't got a clue. I've only had dealings with my home kingdom of
      Meridies and of Trimaris which isn't far away, with intermitten dealings
      with Atlantia from time to time. I was curious as to your opinions. I'm
      not trying to get into a fight about which kingdom is better or anything
      else, more of why you think X kingdom is more authentic.

      I look forward to your responses :)

      Bran
    • Aliskye
      ... kingdom was ... Personally, ... I m not sure you ll get a good answer to this unless there are people on the list who have lived in a lot of different
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 25, 2004
        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Knighton"
        <swordwarrior1066@p...> wrote:
        > I was curious earlier today at worked and was wondering which
        kingdom was
        > the most authentic and or did the most to promote authenticity.
        Personally,
        > I haven't got a clue.

        > Bran

        I'm not sure you'll get a good answer to this unless there are people
        on the list who have lived in a lot of different Kingdoms. But for
        the record, I'd say in Caid the answer would pretty low on the
        scale :) There are households and individuals doing a great job
        being authentic and promoting authenticity but with the exception of
        when Gerhart and Una were on the throne, the Crowns don't seem to pay
        it any mind and there are no awards or official recognitions for
        people who are promoting authenticity.

        aliskye (who realizes that sounds like a sad state of affairs, but
        will note the households and individuals doing authentic stuff are
        mostly pretty recent and I think are having a good influence on the
        rest of us and hopefully the over all picture will get better.)
      • Christopher Bogs
        I ve lived in Atenveldt, the Middle and the East, and visited a number of other kingdoms.. I don t know that any particular kingdom is more authentic overall
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 26, 2004
          I've lived in Atenveldt, the Middle and the East, and visited a number of
          other kingdoms.. I don't know that any particular kingdom is more authentic
          overall than any other. I have met a lot more people interested in
          authenticity here in the East than in the other kingdoms, but I've seen just
          as many people who weren't particularly interested in it as elsewhere too.

          I have heard from residents that Lochac is actually pretty high on the
          authenticity scale because they sort of grew up isolated from general SCA
          culture and started out with more of an authenticity mindset, not having
          started out including fantasy elements as did the US SCA -- but I've not had
          the pleasure of visiting yet so I don't know if that's true. Anyone with
          more experience care to comment?

          Yrs.,
          Christoph
          ----------------------------------------
          Christopher Bogs | Christopher Jameson
          Philadelphia, PA | Barony of Bhakail, EK
          ----------------------------------------
          Don't tell my parents I'm in the SCA --
          They think I'm running guns for a biker gang.
        • Mike
          Good question... In my (limited) travels, I haven t noticed too much of a difference on the whole from kingdom to kingdom. I m not sure if the best way to
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 26, 2004
            Good question...

            In my (limited) travels, I haven't noticed too much of a difference
            on the whole from kingdom to kingdom. I'm not sure if the best way
            to determine that by a kingdom on a whole, or by which "hobbies" are
            done in a more authentic atmosphere.

            Here in the East, I've found a large number of people in the arts and
            sciences community striving for a more authentic game. In the
            fighting communities, though, that isn't so much the case (though, as
            far as I can tell, the trend is slowly starting to change). On the
            other hand, my Don is from Atenveldt, and he tells me that there is
            more emphasis out there to promote historically accurate
            swordsmanship in the rapier community.

            Maybe even a way to tell is by finding how many guilds in a
            particular kingdom focus on authentic, historicaly accurate
            techniques and tools.

            Ld. Lorenzo Gorla.

            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Knighton"
            <swordwarrior1066@p...> wrote:
            > I was curious earlier today at worked and was wondering which
            kingdom was
            > the most authentic and or did the most to promote authenticity.
          • Lady_Lark_Azure
            ... and ... as ... The Company of St. Michael is a notable exception to the (please forgive the term) stick jock mindset. As more of the chivalry try harder
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 26, 2004
              > Here in the East, I've found a large number of people in the arts
              and
              > sciences community striving for a more authentic game. In the
              > fighting communities, though, that isn't so much the case (though,
              as
              > far as I can tell, the trend is slowly starting to change).

              The Company of St. Michael is a notable exception to the (please
              forgive the term) "stick jock" mindset. As more of the chivalry try
              harder with their kits, it becomes easier to get others to follow
              suit.

              For the kingdom as a whole, I think it depends on where you are as
              well as what the local population is like. I was at a dance event a
              month ago that had a preponderance of REALLY bad garb. Most of the
              people there were college kids however. A few weeks later I was at a
              schola cutting brass sheets to make my own aglets, watching people
              learn to spin and chit-chatting with folks working at their tablet
              weaving looms.

              I think that the quality of research materials which are easily
              accessible has gotten much better and even in the 12 years or so that
              I've been in, those who do really authentic work have increased in
              numbers because of it.

              As for awards, in the East we have the King's Order of Excellence
              which is "given by the Sovereign to those who maintain a high
              standard of authenticity in their dress, behavior, persona, and
              goods, in the feast hall, in their encampments, and on the field."

              My two cents,
              Isabeau
            • bronwynmgn@aol.com
              In a message dated 3/26/2004 4:31:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 26, 2004
                In a message dated 3/26/2004 4:31:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

                <<I was curious earlier today at worked and was wondering which kingdom was
                the most authentic and or did the most to promote authenticity.>>

                Well, the East has a pretty thriving authenticity community, and has had an
                award for authenticity (the King's Order of Excellence) for something like 10
                years, but overall the level is still pretty low.
                Although I've never been there, I suspect from what I've heard that Lochac
                probably takes the prize on this one. I understand that, since they learned
                about the SCA mostly in writing, they took the governing documents seriously
                about recreating the Midle Ages and Renaissance. Most other kingdoms started out
                with an "it's close enough" attitude (based on what was known 20 or 30 years
                ago) and are still teaching the same "close enough" tricks to newcomers, even
                though most of them are now no longer close to what is readily available
                knowledge today.

                Brangwayna


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tiffany Brown / Lady Teffania Tukerton
                ... I think It can still depend on the group. But polycotton tunics are pretty rare around here. I haven t got the experience to answer - having only seen
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 28, 2004
                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Bogs" <cbogs@p...> wrote:
                  > I have heard from residents that Lochac is actually pretty high on the
                  > authenticity scale because they sort of grew up isolated from general SCA
                  > culture and started out with more of an authenticity mindset, not having
                  > started out including fantasy elements as did the US SCA -- but I've not had
                  > the pleasure of visiting yet so I don't know if that's true. Anyone with
                  > more experience care to comment?

                  I think It can still depend on the group. But polycotton tunics are pretty rare around here.

                  I haven't got the experience to answer - having only seen Pennsic which I assume draws out the occasional players wanting fun as
                  well as the regulars.

                  There are a couple of things I can think of:
                  1) we haven't had a lot of merchants (that's improving) so we've gotten used to making stuff ourselves. That means more chances of
                  people doing proper research rather than buying "close enough for now". It also means a lower rate of periodish footwear - most
                  people either have recently made accurate period footwear or wear mundane leather shoes for now. So both a blessing and a setback
                  for beginners. Thankfully our combat laws require boots, which makes sure our fighters (the least likely to be authentic bunch) have a
                  pair of leather shoes they can wear with their tunic. It has been ages since I've seen a pair of runners at a feast. (wish I could say
                  the same for t-shirts showing under tunics).
                  2)Isolation means we weren't tied to what the west did. For example, sidings in dancing. Ours are a step forward (shoulder to
                  shoulder) and a step back rather than a double forwards. Sure interesting trying to switch between the two. We could only do
                  sidings this way (which someone early on decided was more period, probably correctly) because we have to travel for a whole day at
                  great expense to do sidings any other way, so we don't have to learn to switch back and forth.
                  3)Laurels - early laurels required a lower minimum standard of authenticity to get elevated. We came in a bit later, so we don't have
                  any (many?) early laurels (who may or may not be less authentic) buzzing around. We have a reputation for our laurels being much
                  tougher at entry standards, but I'm not sure how much that reputation is earned. Just means we're at least in the mid range, not
                  necessarily the toughest.
                  4)It's easy to get a reputation when most of the people who travel over to the US have been playing the game longer and thus are more
                  likely to be more authentic.
                  5) There were a few things a pennsic that surprised me. I was almost exclusively in the company of established dedicated players (ie
                  more authentic than most), and occasionally something would happen, and I'd sit back and go "we'd never do that at home, it's so
                  inauthentic". But mostly i think these were cultural - we have our own little inauthentic habbits we don't notice (Drachenwald has vivat
                  instead of huzzah, which I believe is more authentic).
                  6)A kingdom is a large place. Some bits are better than others.


                  So, for a balanced opinion, ask Kirrily, who has lived and played properly in Lochac and north America.


                  Teffania
                  College of St Monica, Lochac
                  (current authenticity crusade - convincing college newbies they want linen tunics cut in the squares and triangles method. Sucess
                  rate not bad amnoungst the non-fighters since purchase of bolts of linnen makes it cost effective. But then we always have been
                  known as a fussier college)
                • Elina Sojonen
                  Hello, An interesting topic. I ve never been outside of my own kingdom Drachenwald, but I ve heard we have quite a good reputation for being authentic. There
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 29, 2004
                    Hello,

                    An interesting topic. I've never been outside of my own kingdom
                    Drachenwald, but I've heard we have quite a good reputation for
                    being authentic. There may be some variations inside the kingdom,
                    but overall, I think we are doing quite good. At least I have to say
                    many of the situations described on this list sometimes seem pretty
                    exotic to me.

                    What we seem to lack is a strong group of those people who would
                    strive to be inauthentic on purpose. The general ethos seems to be a
                    desire to try to be as medieval as possible. I've never seen
                    sunglasses at an event, nor have I seen white sneakers on an adult.
                    As an example, the latest general authenticity grumble here in
                    aarnimetsä (finland) was that people brought terrycloth towels to
                    the sauna. It was discussed, and now there is quite a visible trend
                    towards linen towels. :)

                    Maybe someone can comment on this, who has been here and to other
                    kingdoms too?


                    -Helena
                  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                    In a message dated 3/29/2004 6:21:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 29, 2004
                      In a message dated 3/29/2004 6:21:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                      Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

                      <<The general ethos seems to be a
                      desire to try to be as medieval as possible. I've never seen
                      sunglasses at an event, nor have I seen white sneakers on an adult. >>

                      Then Drachenwald seems to be doing very well in the general scope of things.
                      We see sunglasses constantly here in the East, and sneakers are common,
                      although I guess I haven't seen too many white ones...It's interesting, since
                      Drachenwald started out as a principality of the East. But then, you guys have a
                      lot more high end Medieval era re-enactors over there for inspiration than we
                      do over here...

                      <<As an example, the latest general authenticity grumble here in
                      aarnimetsä (finland) was that people brought terrycloth towels to
                      the sauna. It was discussed, and now there is quite a visible trend
                      towards linen towels. :)>>

                      Oh, my goodness. I'm considered something of an authenticity nut and it
                      honestly never even occurred to me to do linen towels...I do put my toiletries in
                      a plain canvas drawstring bag to take to the shower, and that is far beyond
                      what most people do. Brightly colored plastic buckets and baskets are very
                      common here for that purpose.
                      Atlantia has very recently made a rule that there should be no plastic
                      visible on the tourney field, nor sneakers, I think. If you guys are worrying about
                      the towels, you are way ahead of us!
                      Now that you've pointed this out, my husband says "Time to go to
                      fabrics-store.com and get some heavy linen to make towels! What size? I assume they're
                      white?"

                      Brangwayna


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Elina Sojonen
                      ... and it ... size? I assume they re white? Mine is pretty big, but from what I have seen in pictures, it s pretty hsrd to determine any standard size. I
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 29, 2004
                        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, bronwynmgn@a... wrote:
                        >
                        > Oh, my goodness. I'm considered something of an authenticity nut
                        and it
                        > honestly never even occurred to me to do linen towels...

                        > Now that you've pointed this out, my husband says "Time to go to
                        > fabrics-store.com and get some heavy linen to make towels! What
                        size? I assume they're white?"

                        Mine is pretty big, but from what I have seen in pictures, it's
                        pretty hsrd to determine any "standard" size.

                        I was lucky enough to obtain an actual old linen towel, originally
                        woven by my fiancee's grandmother. It's great. I'm not sure whether
                        that kind of fabric is available, most of the towel quality linen I
                        have seen in stores is a bit thinner. The thing about my towel is
                        that the linen is really nice and thick, and it absorbs quite well
                        (and dries fast too, as someone pointed it out). It gets softer and
                        more absorbent with each wash. As well as white, I guess you could
                        go for natural colour linen too.

                        I cannot remeber any sources right now, but I do recall reading
                        about this somewhere. (Sorry, I'll just blame it on the flu).

                        Glad to have given people new ideas about being even nuttier. ;)
                        Helena
                      • Khazi bint Hakim
                        Greetings Elina - I am new to the list, however thought you may be interested in contacting Lady Nisaa Karahisari. She does a Turkish Bath class every year at
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 30, 2004
                          Greetings Elina -

                          I am new to the list, however thought you may be interested in contacting Lady Nisaa Karahisari. She does a Turkish Bath class every year at Pennsic, and I know she had information on linene towels. Unfortunately, she moved to California right after last Pennsic and I do not have her new contact info... I can only hope you would be able to find some info on her... If you would like a copy of her Turkish Bath Class notes (possibly you could gleem some info there) let me know and can email them to you.



                          Lady Khazima bint Hakim
                        • Andrea Huwydd Lycsenbwrg
                          ... As well as white, I ... There are a couple of Welsh references to green and I believe yellow towels. These were specifically for handwashing, but I don t
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 31, 2004
                            --- Elina Sojonen <elina.sojonen@...> wrote:


                            As well as white, I
                            > guess you could
                            > go for natural colour linen too.


                            There are a couple of Welsh references to green and I
                            believe yellow towels. These were specifically for
                            handwashing, but I don't suppose bath towels would be
                            terribly different.

                            Gweyrvyl

                            __________________________________
                            Do you Yahoo!?
                            Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
                            http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                          • ladymorwenna
                            ... contacting Lady Nisaa Karahisari. She does a Turkish Bath class every year at Pennsic, and I know she had information on linene towels. ... Nisaa gets her
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 1, 2004
                              > I am new to the list, however thought you may be interested in
                              contacting Lady Nisaa Karahisari. She does a Turkish Bath class every
                              year at Pennsic, and I know she had information on linene towels.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Lady Khazima bint Hakim

                              Nisaa gets her towels (called pestemal --there should be a hook under
                              the "s", so it's pronounced "pesh-te-mahl") from
                              http://www.gidenimports.com/ They are all 100% cotton, not linen, however.

                              She also recommended http://www.tribalartwest.com/turkishbathshop.html
                              for other Turkish bath supplies. They don't seem to be selling any at
                              the moment, but there is a little information about the hammam.

                              --Morwenna
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.