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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Splitting the SCA?

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  • Dianne & Greg Stucki
    ... From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Splitting the SCA? ... those
    Message 1 of 113 , Feb 1, 2004
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <Hasoferet@...>
      To: <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:18 PM
      Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Splitting the SCA?


      >
      > In a message dated 2/1/04 9:23:54 AM, lamiastrix@... writes:
      >
      > >Now if we could just somehow manage to split the SCA into 2 groups...
      those
      > of
      > >us who actually have an interest in history and wish to become ever more
      > >authentic as we progress... and those who want to wear poly T-tunics to
      > >keggers. Each group could have thier own events and quit driving each
      other
      > >crazy.

      I have friends in both camps, 99% of whom I only see at events. I would miss
      the "other half" terribly.

      And authentic in what? Costuming? Music? Art? Brewing? I am hand-sewing my
      first wool dress, but I still love my black synthetic fiber gown.

      The joy and the curse of the SCA is its diversity.

      Laurensa
    • Woodrow Hill
      ... great ... belly, ... women in ... 100% ... most ... See! I completely missed this bit, as well -- I ve been totally out of it, and have some time between
      Message 113 of 113 , Feb 11, 2004
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "MMM" <marshamclean@r...> wrote:



        >
        > > From: hunyddthered [mailto:mel_elliott100@h...]
        > However, acres of bare skin is not period (unless
        > > you're 16thC German, in which case you need to loll about wearing
        > > nothing but a veil and a hat.....) which count belly dancers OUT.
        > >

        > I must vehemently disagree here. Women in India were displaying a
        great
        > deal of bare skin throughout the SCA period. Documentable through
        > statuary as well as detailed illumination and European traveller's
        > descriptions. A common upper garment was a choli, which bared
        belly,
        > much of the arm and lots of upper chest. It also appears that
        women in
        > some areas went bare breasted as well. There is a sari wrap (not
        100%
        > sure about provenance) which bares the lower leg.
        >
        > Please speak to a knowledgeable Raqs researcher (Asim?) about Raqs
        > clothing before making a blanket statement. Belly bunnies bother
        most
        > of us, but I find many things worse.

        See! I completely missed this bit, as well -- I've been totally out of
        it, and have some time between installs to chat about this. :)

        It's still very, very true that the majority of dancers in the Middle
        East, in period, would not have worn anything remotely scandalous.
        But, it's important to understand why, and that's mostly because the
        majority of dancers were not what we, in the modern West, would
        consider "dancers", as in professionally trained/paid performers. They
        are just normal folks, who occasionally hoof it to a lively tune. Raqs
        (bellydance) is, first and foremost, a social dance. And every
        indication is that is was as much one throughout SCA period as it is,
        today. In fact, one of the major disconnects between modern dancers
        from "over there" and Western raqs shaquri participants is that a
        number of the former assert that Western dancers cannot, ever, be as
        good as the native dancers, because they literally grow up with it --
        not just watching it on TV, but doing it, at parties, at discos, etc.
        What does all the above have to do with the price of tea in China? Not
        much, except tea is what's currently keeping me going. :0
        Seriously, the counterpoint to the above is, indeed, the professional
        dancer, who was more likely to wear clothing that exposed and excited.
        Specific clothing references abound; one example is in SOCIAL LIFE OF
        THE ABBISIDS, which talks about the famous Caliph Harun al-Rashid
        visiting a slave (and slaves were the primary professional dancers of
        this period), who was dressed in a sheer shirt. Understand, please,
        that harems were NOT the sex-filled places of myth. A slave wearing
        such a shirt is doing no more than "hanging round the house". It's the
        same justification Ottoman female personas use to not show up to
        events in a ferace (all-over cover, required for all Islamic women in
        public in period Ottoman urban lands).
        And there there's the images of the Ottoman dancer, who occasionally
        show up with their coats unbuttoned, save a button at the very top and
        bottom of the coat. This turns the tight-fitting yelek into an expose
        of flesh, as the goomluk (underchemise) is always slit down the front.
        No modesty there! And lets not even hit the many early period images
        in various palaces of dancers in the nude, or next to nothing. Some of
        these images, in face, can be found in at least one S. Italian palace,
        although the name escapes me.

        And that's not just raqs dancers, either. I'm sure I've posted here
        the painting of the period Ottoman Dervish with the "Prince Albert"
        piercing, yes? And that the leather kilt the figure in question is
        wearing could be seen as documentation for Tuchuk-style loincloths...

        So I don't bitch, too much, about non-period items in my particular
        sub-genre of the SCA. In part, because I know exactly how hard a road
        it is to hoe, and how much work it is to find even the tiniest bit of
        information. For example, there just aren't any good SCA-period based
        pattern books for Middle Eastern, although we're working on this.
        But mostly, it's because of the above comments; I know _exactly_ how
        much more naked there could be, if someone actually cracked open a
        book or three. :)

        > Madinia


        -----asim
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