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Hemp Fabric Question

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  • matchstc
    Greetings I m looking for primary documentation for a significant usage of hemp as clothing fabric. esp as undergarments. I ve seen argument for the use of
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 12, 2003
      Greetings

      I'm looking for primary documentation for a significant usage of
      hemp as clothing fabric. esp as undergarments.

      I've seen argument for the use of hemp of course, for cordage and
      for sails.

      I've found argument for hemp being used in fabric but I've not found
      primary documentation. Usually the references are weak. A common
      place that disseminates this is the folks who want to build a
      legitimate hemp industry again (for some reason or other :)

      The reason for my interest is I make paper. Out of flax fiber, which
      is what I feel was period ( as period as I can get in bulk, I just
      skip the spinning and weaving and then unspinning steps). The most
      common source of white linen was of course old underwear (chemises
      etc).

      I have some documentation for a low grade wrapping type paper being
      made of old sails etc.

      You do start to see hemp being grown as a substitute post period.
      Rags were always the major bottleneck for paper production. Lots of
      rich men made dealing in old cloth.

      I turn to this huge repository of knowledge in hope that one of you
      kind people can direct me.

      Mighel le Brewere
    • Jane of Stockton
      ... Completely out of period, but I once had a hemp/silk blend shirt and it was one of the most comfortable and luxourious things I ve ever worn. I m not a big
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 12, 2003
        At 04:18 AM 13/11/2003 +0000, you wrote:
        >Greetings
        >
        >I'm looking for primary documentation for a significant usage of
        >hemp as clothing fabric. esp as undergarments.
        >
        >I've seen argument for the use of hemp of course, for cordage and
        >for sails.
        >
        >I've found argument for hemp being used in fabric but I've not found
        >primary documentation. Usually the references are weak. A common
        >place that disseminates this is the folks who want to build a
        >legitimate hemp industry again (for some reason or other :)

        Completely out of period, but I once had a hemp/silk blend shirt and it was
        one of the most comfortable and luxourious things I've ever worn. I'm not a
        big fan of the sticky, soft type of silk usually used to make shirts but
        this thing was beautiful, I'd love to get another one.

        Cheers,
        Jane

        ------------------------------------
        Jane of Stockton - jane_of_stockton@...
        Barony of Mordenvale, Kingdom of Lochac

        The Needles Excellency - http://www.laren.blogspot.com/
        Jane's Brodery Gallery - http://www.geocities.com/jane_of_stockton/brodery.html


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jenn Ridley
        ... Not for the TCP. There s not enough TCP in the hemp grown for fiber (for rope, fabric, and paper) to make it worthwhile. (That s according to at least
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
          On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:46:37, Jane of Stockton wrote:

          >>I've found argument for hemp being used in fabric but I've not found
          >>primary documentation. Usually the references are weak. A common
          >>place that disseminates this is the folks who want to build a
          >>legitimate hemp industry again (for some reason or other :)
          Not for the TCP. There's not enough TCP in the hemp grown for fiber
          (for rope, fabric, and paper) to make it worthwhile. (That's
          according to at least *some* of the people _opposing_ the relaxation
          of the US ban on hemp growing.) Hemp rope is stronger than sisal rope
          of the same design, and hemp fabric is like linen, although I hear it
          wears better (never having worn out any linen, I don't know if hemp
          lasts longer or not).


          >Completely out of period, but I once had a hemp/silk blend shirt and it was
          >one of the most comfortable and luxourious things I've ever worn. I'm not a
          >big fan of the sticky, soft type of silk usually used to make shirts but
          >this thing was beautiful, I'd love to get another one.
          Dharma Trading (www.dharmastrading.com) sells silk/hemp blend fabric
          in three weights. Yummy stuff.


          jenn
          --
          Anastasia Emilianova
          Jenn Ridley
          jridley@...
        • Ii Saburou
          ... I ve also had good luck with Pickhemp.com -Ii
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
            On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Jenn Ridley wrote:

            > >Completely out of period, but I once had a hemp/silk blend shirt and it was
            > >one of the most comfortable and luxourious things I've ever worn. I'm not a
            > >big fan of the sticky, soft type of silk usually used to make shirts but
            > >this thing was beautiful, I'd love to get another one.
            > Dharma Trading (www.dharmastrading.com) sells silk/hemp blend fabric
            > in three weights. Yummy stuff.

            I've also had good luck with "Pickhemp.com"

            -Ii
          • jeff.gedney@dictaphone.com
            ... A good book on the subject is The East Anglian Linen Industry; Rural industry and Local Economy, 1500-1850 , by Nesta Evans. She has a lot of
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
              >I've found argument for hemp being used in fabric but I've not found
              >primary documentation. Usually the references are weak. A common
              >place that disseminates this is the folks who want to build a
              >legitimate hemp industry again (for some reason or other :)

              A good book on the subject is "The East Anglian Linen Industry; Rural
              industry and Local Economy, 1500-1850", by Nesta Evans.
              She has a lot of documentation.
              Although she clearly has a pro-hemp agenda , and should therefore be read
              with care, she provides good support for most of her her arguments. She
              also makes some more poorly substantiated claims, and somewhat inflates the
              role of hempen linen. But that said, it is clear that "linen", in period,
              referred to the product of both flax and hemp, similar processes being used
              to produce either.

              Capt Elias
            • matchstc
              Perfect This is a good start to what I m looking for. I had a feeling that might be the case (lack of differentation) And I will be careful with the pro
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
                Perfect

                This is a good start to what I'm looking for. I had a feeling that
                might be the case (lack of differentation)

                And I will be careful with the pro attitude.

                On an initial observation, would you say that flax or hemp was the
                more common "linen".

                Thanks
                mighel

                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, jeff.gedney@d... wrote:
                > >I've found argument for hemp being used in fabric but I've not
                found
                > >primary documentation. Usually the references are weak. A common
                > >place that disseminates this is the folks who want to build a
                > >legitimate hemp industry again (for some reason or other :)
                >
                > A good book on the subject is "The East Anglian Linen Industry;
                Rural
                > industry and Local Economy, 1500-1850", by Nesta Evans.
                > She has a lot of documentation.
                > Although she clearly has a pro-hemp agenda , and should therefore
                be read
                > with care, she provides good support for most of her her arguments.
                She
                > also makes some more poorly substantiated claims, and somewhat
                inflates the
                > role of hempen linen. But that said, it is clear that "linen", in
                period,
                > referred to the product of both flax and hemp, similar processes
                being used
                > to produce either.
                >
                > Capt Elias
              • matchstc
                ... rope ... it ... I realize that. I have a feeling the idea is legalize the fiber THEN go after the other! seeya mighel
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Jenn Ridley <jridley@c...>
                  wrote:

                  > Not for the TCP. There's not enough TCP in the hemp grown for fiber
                  > (for rope, fabric, and paper) to make it worthwhile. (That's
                  > according to at least *some* of the people _opposing_ the relaxation
                  > of the US ban on hemp growing.) Hemp rope is stronger than sisal
                  rope
                  > of the same design, and hemp fabric is like linen, although I hear
                  it
                  > wears better (never having worn out any linen, I don't know if hemp
                  > lasts longer or not).
                  >

                  I realize that. I have a feeling the idea is legalize the fiber THEN
                  go after the other!

                  seeya
                  mighel
                • jeff.gedney@dictaphone.com
                  ... Based on what I ve read, it varied somewhat with region. In certain areas of Norfolk, for example, much more hemp than flax appears to have been grown,
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
                    > On an initial observation, would you say that flax or hemp was the
                    > more common "linen".

                    Based on what I've read, it varied somewhat with region.
                    In certain areas of Norfolk, for example, much more hemp than flax appears
                    to have been grown, mostly for use in cordage and sailcloth, but linen from
                    this area, especially linen designated "rough" linen ( not referring to
                    texture, but apparently to the rural nature of it's production ) could be
                    assumed to be hempen.
                    Generally though you'd hear the term "hempen linen" used, especially if the
                    writer was form an area that was not heavily involved in hemp production,
                    like London or other areas of the south of England..
                    Dockyard manifests that referred to linen for sails almost always refer to
                    hempen linen, as flax linen was used almost universally for cloth
                    production.
                    In fact the word Canvas comes from the latin for hemp - Cannabis.
                    Sailcloth, generally was a 2x2 or 2x1 hemp linen twill.

                    Capt Elias
                  • matchstc
                    Then my theory that paper, made of clothing, would more than likely be more of a flax base with perhaps ocasional hemp fibers? I can t see the ragpickers going
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
                      Then my theory that paper, made of clothing, would more than likely
                      be more of a flax base with perhaps ocasional hemp fibers?

                      I can't see the ragpickers going thru the old rags going "nope this
                      ones hemp, this ones linen"

                      I really appreciate the leads

                      mighel

                      > Generally though you'd hear the term "hempen linen" used,
                      especially if the
                      > writer was form an area that was not heavily involved in hemp
                      production,
                      > like London or other areas of the south of England..
                      > Dockyard manifests that referred to linen for sails almost always
                      refer to
                      > hempen linen, as flax linen was used almost universally for cloth
                      > production.
                      > In fact the word Canvas comes from the latin for hemp - Cannabis.
                      > Sailcloth, generally was a 2x2 or 2x1 hemp linen twill.
                      >
                      > Capt Elias
                    • demontsegur
                      ... THEN ... Not quite sure why you d think there s a relationship between those two distinctly different industries. Hemp was grown widely for use as a fibre
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
                        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "matchstc" <matchstc@h...>
                        wrote:
                        > I realize that. I have a feeling the idea is legalize the fiber
                        THEN
                        > go after the other!
                        > seeya
                        > mighel

                        Not quite sure why you'd think there's a relationship between those
                        two distinctly different industries. Hemp was grown widely for use as
                        a fibre in this country (the US) throughout its colonial period, all
                        through the 18th and 19th centuries, and in the 20th century too.
                        Hemp-for-fibre is a distinctly different version of the plant that
                        produces enough TCP to alter consciousness. Regardless of the fact
                        that the 1970 Controlled Substances Act mentions this difference
                        specifically and exempts industrial hemp production from the control
                        that the other version receives, the industry has been stymied at
                        every turn. (I bet the cotton industry likes it that way too... but
                        that's just a guess on my part...)

                        Having worked with hemp string and also linen string for the purpose
                        of splicing and braiding, there is no doubt in my mind that hemp is
                        the superior product and I regret that it's not more readily
                        available. (I have zero interest in TCP variety, for the record.)

                        -Marcele
                      • matchstc
                        ... as ... all ... I m not sure there is that much difference. They will interbreed and having one creates a blind for the other. This plant once
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
                          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "demontsegur"
                          > Not quite sure why you'd think there's a relationship between those
                          > two distinctly different industries. Hemp was grown widely for use
                          as
                          > a fibre in this country (the US) throughout its colonial period,
                          all
                          > through the 18th and 19th centuries, and in the 20th century too.

                          I'm not sure there is that much difference. They will interbreed and
                          having one creates a "blind" for the other. This plant once
                          established, is kinda like kudzu, very hard to contain. It's still a
                          problem weed (pun intended) in the midwest.

                          Theres a lot of people in the "fiber" legalization camp that are
                          also in the THC camp. You'll hear arguments of fiber use, paper pulp
                          and biomass for energy (all of which the plant does well for) You'll
                          hear arguments of it being an easy to grow crop on worn out land etc..

                          But I personally doubt it will ever be legalized in any format on a
                          wide scale in this country for various political and economic reasons.

                          Thankfully the fiber can be purchased legally at a reasonable price
                          from countries a little more forward thinking.

                          seeya
                          mighel
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