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  • dparishwhittaker
    Dumb question, but here goes. I just did an inn weekend at a mountain cabin, where we gussied up the inside to look like a ordinary (inn) in Northumberland
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 6, 2003
      Dumb question, but here goes.

      I just did an "inn weekend" at a mountain cabin, where we gussied up
      the inside to look like a ordinary (inn) in Northumberland circa
      1594. Looked great, but the windows really bugged me- modern plate
      glass, albeit with wooden trim.

      What sort of things could we hang in front of the windows next time?
      I've heard they used "oil paper" in more modest homes, but I'm not
      sure what that would look like (Butcher paper sprayed with cooking
      spray, perhaps?)
    • ladymorwenna
      ... Le Poulet Gauche covered the windows with some kind of paper, parchment paper maybe (I ll have to ask Gaucher). It was decorated with electrical tape in
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 6, 2003
        > I just did an "inn weekend" at a mountain cabin, where we gussied up
        > the inside to look like a ordinary (inn) in Northumberland circa
        > 1594. Looked great, but the windows really bugged me- modern plate
        > glass, albeit with wooden trim.
        >
        > What sort of things could we hang in front of the windows next time?
        > I've heard they used "oil paper" in more modest homes, but I'm not
        > sure what that would look like (Butcher paper sprayed with cooking
        > spray, perhaps?)

        Le Poulet Gauche covered the windows with some kind of paper,
        parchment paper maybe (I'll have to ask Gaucher). It was decorated
        with electrical tape in diamond patterns to look like leading. It made
        a big difference in terms of atmosphere.

        --Morwenna
      • Jeff Gedney
        ... no such thing ... Well, I believe that by 1594, the use of glass was pretty widespread... even inthe wilds of Northumbria. a small country inn would not
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 6, 2003
          > Dumb question, but here goes.

          no such thing

          > I just did an "inn weekend" at a mountain cabin, where we gussied up
          > the inside to look like a ordinary (inn) in Northumberland circa
          > 1594. Looked great, but the windows really bugged me- modern plate
          > glass, albeit with wooden trim.
          >
          > What sort of things could we hang in front of the windows next time?
          > I've heard they used "oil paper" in more modest homes, but I'm not
          > sure what that would look like (Butcher paper sprayed with cooking
          > spray, perhaps?)

          Well, I believe that by 1594, the use of glass was pretty widespread... even
          inthe wilds of Northumbria.
          a small country inn would not have been able to afford the use of plate
          glass (made at this time by blowing glass into a cylinder, cutting the
          cylinders and heating them on a flat plate, a labor intensive process)

          But "bullseye" glass ( "bulion glass", I believe )windows in diamond pane
          frames would not have been beyond the reach of the average inn... and
          especially as it served to advertise that that inn is a "nice" place, they
          would have scrimped on furnishings to get the glass...

          The panes would have been made by blowing a small ball of glass and then
          spinning it until it flattened out like a saucer... keeping it hot until it
          all merged into a disk thinner at the edges and thick in the middle.
          Smaller panes would have been cheaper to get, and probably made in quantity
          by apprentices. These are cut to the same diamond shape using a template
          and supplied to the Glazier who mounted them into the window frames.
          Smallish diamond panes would also be used to take up trimmed scraps from the
          larger more expensive plates of glass.
          There might be an occasional pane that is patched with Oiled parchment (
          lambskin not paper ) or thin oiled rawhide. The panes may not have been of
          uniform color, as you'd be using basically scraps to make them.

          How to get that effect?
          Hmm.
          Depends on how permanent you are making the decoration...
          For a less permanent installation, you need to make a frame that covers
          window with a criss cross lattice making the diamonds, then you can stretch
          a good heavy clear plastic behind it, or sheet lexan... experiment with
          gently heating a small glass jar and pressing it to the center of each pane
          to make it shrink up slightly. Alternatively some glass places sell sheets
          of Bullseyed plexiglass, which you could use as well... (though often the
          "bullseyes" are too close together to be of much use)

          Simple plates of glass with diamond lattice applied over it is more
          permanent, and you can achieve the scraps and bullseye effects with careful
          painting...

          Of course you can still get modern (molded) bullseye glass made to shape and
          size and properly seat it in a diamond frame with glazing points and
          putty... but that runs to money.

          If this is something youare going to do fairly often, then I'd suggest
          getting thick sheets of clear Lexan, placing a lattice of Wood strips over
          it, and making a hangable frame to size and using those...
          Might be the cheapest and best way to go about it.

          Capt Elias
        • William Harrington
          How about building a wooden grate that can be set into the window frame to mimic the framing of small panes of glass? Glassan ... From: dparishwhittaker To:
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 6, 2003
            How about building a wooden grate that can be set into the window frame to mimic the framing of small panes of glass?

            Glassan
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: dparishwhittaker
            To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:48 PM
            Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Windows


            Dumb question, but here goes.

            I just did an "inn weekend" at a mountain cabin, where we gussied up
            the inside to look like a ordinary (inn) in Northumberland circa
            1594. Looked great, but the windows really bugged me- modern plate
            glass, albeit with wooden trim.

            What sort of things could we hang in front of the windows next time?
            I've heard they used "oil paper" in more modest homes, but I'm not
            sure what that would look like (Butcher paper sprayed with cooking
            spray, perhaps?)


            ---------------------------------
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • dparishwhittaker
            ... frame to mimic the framing of small panes of glass? ... I think something like this is the way to go. It has to be light, which eliminates the real glass
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 7, 2003
              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, William Harrington
              <ohiongardail@y...> wrote:
              > How about building a wooden grate that can be set into the window
              frame to mimic the framing of small panes of glass?
              >
              > Glassan


              I think something like this is the way to go. It has to be light,
              which eliminates the real glass idea (even if I could afford it). I
              like Jeff's idea of the Lexan, or perhaps parchment- I dont want to
              see the modern sill behind the faux window. I've got a few months to
              work on this- next event will be in late January (we SoCal types
              have to go looking for ways to simulate English weather!)

              Thanks for all your help.

              While we're on inn furnishings, do you folks think they would have
              had floor rushes? The cabin has a very nice wooden floor- we threw
              a few throw rugs on it, and it looked great. But is that really what
              the flooring of a late 16th century inn would look like?
            • Jeff Gedney
              ... I am not sure... almost certainly they would have use rushes or sedges in spots where spills were likely... and they probably used them the way some bars
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 7, 2003
                > While we're on inn furnishings, do you folks think they would have
                > had floor rushes? The cabin has a very nice wooden floor- we threw
                > a few throw rugs on it, and it looked great. But is that really what
                > the flooring of a late 16th century inn would look like?

                I am not sure... almost certainly they would have use rushes or sedges in
                spots where spills were likely...
                and they probably used them the way some bars use sawdust- to soak up spills
                and sweep them away.

                Sawdust though is unlikely, there was just not that much sawing going on to
                make that likely.
                Hay is unlikely as well, since the Hayseed is so hard to clean up, and
                fodder was usually saved for the animals.

                Carpets, or perhaps painted floor cloths might have been used...
                Let me see... I'll check some period tavern pictures on the web

                All the tavern pictures I can find at the "Web Gallery of Art" show bare
                floors...
                then again only one of the pics had wood floors the rest are flagstones,
                most of them appear to be painted, or at least they show an unnaturally
                uniform coloration. But this may just be artistic rendering, so I dont know.

                Some of the floors are quite plain and smooth, showing no joints or seams at
                all, and resemble nothing so much as decking overlain with painted canvas
                (if you have ever seen it used on a fishing boat you will know what I mean)
                so there may be painted canvas sheet laid wall to wall...
                Something like that might be economical regarding spills or wear...
                but then again they could also be heavily overpainted floors, which might be
                the same effect, with regard to spills staining and wear.

                But I can't tell you, for sure, as I have not studied this at all...
              • Elizabeth Walpole
                ... be ... hmm what sort of colours were the floors painted? were they the sort of colours to match the sort of stains they d get on them? e.g. at the
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 8, 2003
                  <snip>
                  >but then again they could also be heavily overpainted floors, which might
                  be
                  >the same effect, with regard to spills staining and wear.
                  >
                  >But I can't tell you, for sure, as I have not studied this at all...


                  hmm what sort of colours were the floors painted? were they the sort of
                  colours to match the sort of stains they'd get on them? e.g. at the old
                  Quarantine station* in Sydney the room where they performed autopsies had a
                  floor painted a dark reddish brown colour so any blood that got on the floor
                  was not as easy to notice.
                  When you mentioned painted floors that was the first thing that popped into
                  my head.
                  Just curious

                  Elizabeth

                  *(up till the 1950s if any ship coming into Australia was found to have
                  infectious diseases on it e.g. smallpox, the passengers were sent to the
                  quarantine station until the incubation period of the disease had passed
                  without new infections)


                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----
                  Elizabeth Beaumont
                  MKA:
                  Elizabeth Walpole
                  Politarchopolis, Lochac
                  ewalpole@...

                  People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun
                  is out, but when the darkness sets in ,their true beauty is revealed only if
                  there is light from within.
                  Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

                  The years that a woman subtracts from her age are not lost. They are added
                  to the ages of other women.
                  Diane de Poitiers (1499-1566) Attrib.
                • Susan Richardson
                  If you go to the Sabine folder in the photo section, you will samples of faux stained glass windows that I made to hide mundane windows with modern views at a
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 12, 2003
                    If you go to the Sabine folder in the photo section, you will
                    samples of faux stained glass windows that I made to hide mundane
                    windows with modern views at a friend's wedding. You could use the
                    same format without the stained glass part. If you would like
                    instructions to make faux stained glass windows, I would be happy to
                    post them. They are relatively easy and inexpensive to make. If you
                    can come up with posterboard, tissue paper and transparent tape, you
                    can make faux windows that really pump up the medieval ambiance.

                    Regards,
                    Sabine of Forth Castle


                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "dparishwhittaker"
                    <davidparishwhittaker@h...> wrote:

                    >
                    > What sort of things could we hang in front of the windows next
                    time?
                    ?)
                  • Dianne & Greg Stucki
                    Please do post the instructions! Laurensa ... From: Susan Richardson To: Sent: Sunday,
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 12, 2003
                      Please do post the instructions!

                      Laurensa
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Susan Richardson" <sabineofforthcastle@...>
                      To: <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 8:48 AM
                      Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Windows


                      > If you go to the Sabine folder in the photo section, you will
                      > samples of faux stained glass windows that I made to hide mundane
                      > windows with modern views at a friend's wedding. You could use the
                      > same format without the stained glass part. If you would like
                      > instructions to make faux stained glass windows, I would be happy to
                      > post them. They are relatively easy and inexpensive to make. If you
                      > can come up with posterboard, tissue paper and transparent tape, you
                      > can make faux windows that really pump up the medieval ambiance.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Sabine of Forth Castle
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "dparishwhittaker"
                      > <davidparishwhittaker@h...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > What sort of things could we hang in front of the windows next
                      > time?
                      > ?)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----------------------------------------------------
                      > This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • Tom Rettie
                      ... time? ... not ... cooking ... At Barley Hall in York, they have some beautiful fenestralls (window covers) that are linen stretched over a wooden frame.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 12, 2003
                        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "dparishwhittaker"
                        <davidparishwhittaker@h...> wrote:
                        > What sort of things could we hang in front of the windows next
                        time?
                        > I've heard they used "oil paper" in more modest homes, but I'm
                        not
                        > sure what that would look like (Butcher paper sprayed with
                        cooking
                        > spray, perhaps?)

                        At Barley Hall in York, they have some beautiful fenestralls
                        (window covers) that are linen stretched over a wooden frame.
                        The linen was then treated with alum, hot sheep's fat, and rosin.

                        I think you could get a very similar effect by simply treating the
                        linen with boiled linseed oil (available at any hardware store),
                        which will dry to a hard, translucent surface. I wouldn't use
                        cooking oil, it will eventually go rancid.

                        I've posted a picture in the Photos area under a folder called
                        "Fin."

                        Hope that helps.

                        Fin (Tom R.)
                        http://www.his.com/~tom/index.html
                      • dparishwhittaker
                        ... Ka-Ching! You re probably right about the sheep s fat rotting over time- as I mentioned I m down here in warm SoCal. Did you get an up close look? Do you
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 12, 2003
                          > At Barley Hall in York, they have some beautiful fenestralls
                          > (window covers) that are linen stretched over a wooden frame.
                          > The linen was then treated with alum, hot sheep's fat, and rosin.
                          >

                          Ka-Ching!

                          You're probably right about the sheep's fat rotting over time- as I
                          mentioned I'm down here in warm SoCal.

                          Did you get an up close look? Do you get to see what those rivet
                          looking things are at the intersections of the slats (maybe a metal
                          rivet, or are they short dowel connectors?)

                          BTW, I found a online virtual tour of Barley Hall at

                          http://www.r3.org/barley_hall/tour/22buttery3.html

                          Neat place!
                        • Tom Rettie
                          ... rivet ... metal ... As I recall they were either copper clench nails or rivets. Copper boat nails would work well (you can order them from Lee Valley
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 12, 2003
                            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "dparishwhittaker"
                            <davidparishwhittaker@h...> wrote:

                            > Did you get an up close look? Do you get to see what those
                            rivet
                            > looking things are at the intersections of the slats (maybe a
                            metal
                            > rivet, or are they short dowel connectors?)

                            As I recall they were either copper clench nails or rivets. Copper
                            boat nails would work well (you can order them from Lee Valley
                            Hardware).

                            One nice thing about Barley Hall is that because the "artifacts"
                            are all reproductions, they don't mind if you play with them.

                            > BTW, I found a online virtual tour of Barley Hall at
                            >
                            > http://www.r3.org/barley_hall/tour/22buttery3.html
                            >
                            > Neat place!

                            I highly recommend York as a place to visit; Barley Hall is just
                            one of the cool things to see.

                            Fin
                            (Tom R.)
                          • Yana Groznaia
                            ... Wow! I have to admit, I was thinking Ew, poster board and tissue paper? How ineffective, but good gods, they look great! Yep, saved that file, I did.
                            Message 13 of 17 , Oct 13, 2003
                              > If you go to the Sabine folder in the photo section, you will
                              > samples of faux stained glass windows that I made to hide mundane
                              > windows with modern views at a friend's wedding.

                              Wow! I have to admit, I was thinking "Ew, poster board and tissue
                              paper? How ineffective," but good gods, they look great! Yep, saved
                              that file, I did. I foresee an event project...

                              --Yana
                            • aheilvei
                              ... saved ... Too bad we can t use it for the event in January, eh dear? *grin* We have an event that s held in January in a hotel. All of the windows are
                              Message 14 of 17 , Oct 13, 2003
                                > Wow! I have to admit, I was thinking "Ew, poster board and tissue
                                > paper? How ineffective," but good gods, they look great! Yep,
                                saved
                                > that file, I did. I foresee an event project...

                                Too bad we can't use it for the event in January, eh dear? *grin*

                                We have an event that's held in January in a hotel. All of the
                                windows are floor to ceiling and it's a *lot* of windows. Maybe we
                                could do some of them though.... depends on when they'd let us into
                                the building.... hmmmm....

                                Despina
                              • Susan Richardson
                                If the mundane window is too big, I black-out the extra glass with black wrapping paper. It is relatively inexpensive, effective and sets off the faux stained
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 13, 2003
                                  If the mundane window is too big, I black-out the extra glass
                                  with black wrapping paper. It is relatively inexpensive, effective
                                  and sets off the faux stained glass window. If you have a way of
                                  back-lighting them in the evening, they are absolutely glorious.

                                  Sabine of Forth Castle


                                  >
                                  > We have an event that's held in January in a hotel. All of the
                                  > windows are floor to ceiling and it's a *lot* of windows. Maybe we
                                  > could do some of them though.... depends on when they'd let us into
                                  > the building.... hmmmm....
                                  >
                                  > Despina
                                • Jeff Gedney
                                  ... most of the pictiures seemed to be that some shade or other of that industrial grey color you get from mixing the tagends of all your other paint buckets
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 13, 2003
                                    >
                                    > hmm what sort of colours were the floors painted? were they the sort of
                                    > colours to match the sort of stains they'd get on them? e.g. at the old
                                    > Quarantine station* in Sydney the room where they performed
                                    > autopsies had a
                                    > floor painted a dark reddish brown colour so any blood that got
                                    > on the floor
                                    > was not as easy to notice.
                                    > When you mentioned painted floors that was the first thing that
                                    > popped into
                                    > my head.
                                    > Just curious
                                    >
                                    > Elizabeth

                                    most of the pictiures seemed to be that some shade or other of that
                                    "industrial grey" color you get from mixing the tagends of all your other
                                    paint buckets with a base of white... You know: battleship greyscale.
                                    but again, that could be a convention, or it could be simply the base coat
                                    used for preparing the canvas.
                                    One of the pictures has flagstones a uniform and undifferentiated brick red
                                    color, sort of "brickwashed".
                                    who knows?
                                    Certainly though, a lot of the floors show a conspicuous lack of
                                    delineation, when they are not specifically flagstone. Flagstones, when
                                    shown, show a conspicuous lack of natural color variation and staining.
                                  • Yana
                                    ... Well, it is a hotel. If we only needed to get in to measure things....I ve never been to this particular site, but maybe they d let us decorate it up.
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Oct 14, 2003
                                      >Too bad we can't use it for the event in January, eh dear? *grin*

                                      Well, it is a hotel. If we only needed to get in to measure things....I've
                                      never been to this particular site, but maybe they'd let us decorate it up.

                                      Hopefully we will start talking about the event this next meeting.

                                      --Yana
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