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RE: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Children's games

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  • Marsha McLean
    Hey, everyone, I believe Constance has something to tell us? Madinia ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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      Hey, everyone, I believe Constance has something to tell us?

      Madinia

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: constancefairfax [mailto:constancefairfax@...]
      > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:38 AM
      > To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Children's games
      >
      > > is, does anyone have any idea if this game is period for any SCA
      > > times? It was pretty simple and would be easy to make but I don't
      > > know what it was called. I think it would be a fun thing for both
      > > children and adults, but I'd rather not introduce it, if it's not
      >
      > There are depictions of children playing with hoops and sticks
      > in "Children's Games" by Pieter Bruegel the Elder - although I can't
      > guarantee it's the same game.
      >
      > Let me know if you need help finding the picture - please email me
      > directly at constancefairfax (at) minstrel (dot) com
      >
      > Constance
      >
      >
      >
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    • constancefairfax
      I have two pieces of news... On Sunday, my family agreed to adopt a beautiful greyhound at Havoc in Hastings. I guess you could call her a vigiling present.
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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        I have two pieces of news...

        On Sunday, my family agreed to adopt a beautiful greyhound at Havoc
        in Hastings. I guess you could call her a vigiling present.

        Constance

        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Marsha McLean"
        <marshamclean@r...> wrote:
        > Hey, everyone, I believe Constance has something to tell us?
        >
        > Madinia
      • Sarah Michele Ford
        ... Yay, pets! ... Yay, vigiling! Congrats! (I knew! I knew! (because your husband was so excited about it he was positively twitchy...and told me all
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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          constancefairfax wrote:
          > I have two pieces of news...
          >
          > On Sunday, my family agreed to adopt a beautiful greyhound at Havoc
          > in Hastings.

          Yay, pets!

          > I guess you could call her a vigiling present.

          Yay, vigiling! Congrats! (I knew! I knew! (because your husband was
          so excited about it he was positively twitchy...and told me all about it
          sometime at the end of Pennsic.))

          Alianor

          P.S. We're keeping Anne.

          --
          Sarah Michele Ford
          /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
          Illusion is the general rule of the universe;
          reality is but an exception.
          --Jean Baudrillard
          \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
        • constancefairfax
          Gosh, he was driving me nuts, but he kept the secret. :) ... No way! Anne s my baby! :)
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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            Gosh, he was driving me nuts, but he kept the secret. :)

            > P.S. We're keeping Anne.

            No way! Anne's my baby! :)
          • Sarah Michele Ford
            ... Ah yes, but you wouldn t even *have* her if it wasn t for us... Are the rest of you confused enough now? :^) Alianor -- Sarah Michele Ford
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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              constancefairfax wrote:
              > > P.S. We're keeping Anne.
              >
              > No way! Anne's my baby! :)

              Ah yes, but you wouldn't even *have* her if it wasn't for us...

              Are the rest of you confused enough now? :^)

              Alianor

              --
              Sarah Michele Ford
              /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
              Illusion is the general rule of the universe;
              reality is but an exception.
              --Jean Baudrillard
              \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
            • Grece Fitz Huwe
              ... Yes but living in the state of confusion is the only way I keep my sanity Gracey ... Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                >>Are the rest of you confused enough now? :^)

                Yes but living in the state of confusion is the only way
                I keep my sanity <G>

                Gracey


                ---
                Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Marsha McLean
                Congrats, dear lady. I have heard nothing but good of you and it is well deserved. I didn t want to come out and say it because wasn t at the event and you
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                  Congrats, dear lady. I have heard nothing but good of you and it is
                  well deserved. I didn't want to come out and say it because wasn't at
                  the event and you know.....

                  Congrats on the dog as well.

                  Madinia

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: constancefairfax [mailto:constancefairfax@...]
                  > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 10:25 AM
                  > To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Constance's news
                  >
                  > I have two pieces of news...
                  >
                  > On Sunday, my family agreed to adopt a beautiful greyhound at Havoc
                  > in Hastings. I guess you could call her a vigiling present.
                  >
                  > Constance
                  >
                  > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Marsha McLean"
                  > <marshamclean@r...> wrote:
                  > > Hey, everyone, I believe Constance has something to tell us?
                  > >
                  > > Madinia
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >
                  > ----------------------------------------------------
                  > This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Alanfrize@aol.com
                  In a message dated 02/09/03 17:58:03 GMT Daylight Time, sarah@snowplow.org ... I can t speak for everyone else, but to me this is as confusing as War and
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                    In a message dated 02/09/03 17:58:03 GMT Daylight Time, sarah@...
                    writes:


                    > Ah yes, but you wouldn't even *have* her if it wasn't for us...
                    >
                    > Are the rest of you confused enough now? :^)
                    >
                    >

                    I can't speak for everyone else, but to me this is as confusing as 'War and
                    Peace'!
                    Alan


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sarah Michele Ford
                    ... Oh, OK, OK. Suffice it to say that a young lady who started in the SCA where I live now is in college and in the same group and Constance, and Constance
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                      > I can't speak for everyone else, but to me this is as confusing as 'War and
                      > Peace'!

                      Oh, OK, OK. Suffice it to say that a young lady who started in the SCA
                      where I live now is in college and in the same group and Constance, and
                      Constance has been trying to STEAL HER! And we simply aren't going to
                      let that happen.

                      *grin*

                      Alianor
                      --
                      Sarah Michele Ford
                      /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
                      Illusion is the general rule of the universe;
                      reality is but an exception.
                      --Jean Baudrillard
                      \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
                    • aheilvei
                      ... the SCA ... Constance, and ... going to ... Once they come to the Midrealm, they never want to go anywhere else... .*grin* We don t steal people, we only
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                        > Oh, OK, OK. Suffice it to say that a young lady who started in
                        the SCA
                        > where I live now is in college and in the same group and
                        Constance, and
                        > Constance has been trying to STEAL HER! And we simply aren't
                        going to
                        > let that happen.

                        Once they come to the Midrealm, they never want to go anywhere
                        else... .*grin* We don't steal people, we only take them in and
                        love them. Choosing to remain is an option many seem happy and
                        willing to take.

                        Smiles,
                        Despina
                      • Sarah Michele Ford
                        ... And what about those of us who started in the Midrealm and left? Eh? :^P Alianor -- Sarah Michele Ford / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                          aheilvei wrote:

                          > Once they come to the Midrealm, they never want to go anywhere
                          > else... .*grin* We don't steal people, we only take them in and
                          > love them. Choosing to remain is an option many seem happy and
                          > willing to take.

                          And what about those of us who started in the Midrealm and left? Eh? :^P

                          Alianor
                          --
                          Sarah Michele Ford
                          /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
                          Illusion is the general rule of the universe;
                          reality is but an exception.
                          --Jean Baudrillard
                          \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
                        • constancefairfax
                          See, Despina agrees with me. Besides - it s authentic. :) Constance
                          Message 12 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                            See, Despina agrees with me.

                            Besides - it's authentic. :)

                            Constance
                          • Mark Bush (personal account)
                            While I am certain that these inside references are meaningful to the two or possibly three directly involved, for those (of majority) of us who are NOT in on
                            Message 13 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                              While I am certain that these inside references are meaningful to the two or
                              possibly three directly involved, for those (of majority) of us who are NOT
                              in on the secret, it is an abhorrent waste of bandwidth and a distraction
                              from the little time I DO Have to keep up with the list. In the future, can
                              you please take these correspondences off-list?

                              William of Glencoe
                              Clan MacDonald
                              Barony of Black Diamond,
                              Kingdom of Atlantia


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Aliskye
                              Thanks to everyone for their responses on this, especially to Ranald. Having the name of the game is a big help, though unfortunately, searching for it online
                              Message 14 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                Thanks to everyone for their responses on this, especially to
                                Ranald. Having the name of the game is a big help, though
                                unfortunately, searching for it online doesn't turn up any references
                                earlier than the 1800's. Oh well. I did look at the Peter Brueghl
                                painting (which is very cool) but don't see anything close to this
                                game there. (though they did have a couple of the other things that
                                were demonstrated at Sturbridge Village). I'll have to keep looking
                                I think.

                                Thanks again!

                                aliskye

                                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Ron Carnegie
                                <r.carnegie@v...> wrote:

                                > The game is called "The Game of Graces". I have no idea if it is
                                > pre-1600 or not, but it wouldn't surprise me. On the other hand,
                                when I
                                > did a quick search on the web just now I found little evidence.
                                Most of
                                > the hits were museums selling the game and when they gave dates they
                                > usually just gave the period of their museum. These dates were
                                usually
                                > 19th century, but than so are most Living History Museums in North
                                > America. These sets are made by Cooperman.
                                > --
                                >
                                > Ranald de Balinhard,
                              • Jeff Gedney
                                checking out the Childrens Games picture by Brueghel http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/b/bruegel/pieter_e/painting/children/index.ht ml I see the kids playing
                                Message 15 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                  checking out the Childrens Games picture by Brueghel

                                  http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/b/bruegel/pieter_e/painting/children/index.ht
                                  ml

                                  I see the kids playing Hoops with sticks, blind man's bluff, Leapfrog, tag,
                                  marbles, bowls, walking on stilts, stickball, crack the whip, catchasyoucan
                                  (trying to grab an object on a string you hold behind your head on a stick),
                                  wrestling, doing tumblesaults and standing on their heads, King of the hill,
                                  "buck buck" ( or "horse" ) playing follow the leader, riding hobbyhorse,
                                  making mudpies, playing dressup and pretend, spinning around, fireman's
                                  carry, "Chicken fighting", and all sorts of "kid things".

                                  A wonderful presentation of the energy of kids at play.

                                  There are loads of games here modern kids still play and would relate to.
                                  Some of them, like "buckbuck" (makign a horse of kids and other kids trying
                                  to knock it down bu jumping on it) would be considered dangerous today - In
                                  fact my most vivd memory of the game is as a kid - we played it in
                                  Boyscouts, and we had to stop after one kid got a double compound fracture
                                  of the lower leg when the heap went down in an unfortunate tumble!
                                  Good thing there were so many scouts nearby!


                                  What worries me about the picture, actually, is that the kids making (and
                                  tasting!!) the mudpies are doing so in close proximity to a portable
                                  "nightseat" (potty).

                                  Capt Elias
                                • Rosine
                                  http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/b/bruegel/pieter_e/painting/children/index.html ... In the upper left corner there are a few kids playing with whip tops on the
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Sep 4, 2003
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                                    http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/b/bruegel/pieter_e/painting/children/index.html

                                    > I see the kids playing Hoops with sticks, blind man's bluff,
                                    > Leapfrog, tag, marbles, bowls, walking on stilts, stickball,
                                    > crack the whip, catchasyoucan (trying to grab an object on
                                    > a string you hold behind your head on a stick), wrestling,
                                    >doing tumblesaults and standing on their heads, King of the hill,
                                    > "buck buck" ( or "horse" ) playing follow the leader, riding
                                    > hobbyhorse, making mudpies, playing dressup and pretend,
                                    > spinning around, fireman's carry, "Chicken fighting", and all
                                    > sorts of "kid things".
                                    > <snip>
                                    > Capt Elias

                                    In the upper left corner there are a few kids playing with whip tops on
                                    the porch and just to the left of them is a group of children playing "duck,
                                    duck, goose". Beyond them in the river are two skinny-dippers.
                                    Somewhere online is an article identifying as many games in the painting
                                    as possible (it was one of the University sites), but I can't find it now -
                                    must have been one of my lost "favourites" links. [Subnote: never let your
                                    teenager "clean the dead links" for you without first warning said child
                                    that some links aren't "dead", they're in time-out. Arg. I'm still
                                    rebuilding.]
                                    And somewhere (again), I have a 16th century English woodcut of a set of
                                    kids playing with soap bubbles. I think it's in Antonia Frazier's book on
                                    children's toys. A little boy is standing at the head of a set of stairs
                                    with a bowl balanced on the railing in front of him. He is holding a tube to
                                    his mouth from which a bubble is forming. More bubbles are floating in the
                                    air and two or three children on the ground below him are trying to catch
                                    them. We made a small copy of the picture and taped it to the outside of a
                                    bunch of little soap bubble containers for the Queen to give out at
                                    12thNight one year. That was fun.
                                    And I had a pic of a watercolor showing a child, circa 12th century
                                    China, playing with a paper ball... so I got a load of them from a mail
                                    catalogue and gave them out at a different 12th night. The only problem was
                                    that the balls were made of paper stripes of white, red, blue and yellow -
                                    just like traditional (modern) beach balls. Since 12th Night was hosted in
                                    my hometown of Virginia Beach, Va - we ended up with a "party at the beach"
                                    effect... and some less-than-serious wags blew theirs up and played with
                                    them during Court. And again at feast. That earned me a finger-wagging from
                                    the Crowns. I defended myself - it was *educational*, right? And I was the
                                    Kingdom Chatelaine for Children's Activities - there was no age limit on the
                                    definition of "children". Right? Uh, yeah. Maybe I should have stuck with ",
                                    It wasn't me, I didn't know they were underage, I was on the other side of
                                    the lake..."

                                    Rosine
                                  • Jeff Gedney
                                    ... Here is one... http://www.ahs.uwaterloo.ca/~museum/Brueghel/imgmap.html Capt Elias
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Sep 4, 2003
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                                      > Somewhere online is an article identifying as many games in
                                      > the painting
                                      > as possible (it was one of the University sites), but I can't
                                      > find it now -
                                      > must have been one of my lost "favourites" links. [Subnote: never let your
                                      > teenager "clean the dead links" for you without first warning said child
                                      > that some links aren't "dead", they're in time-out. Arg. I'm still
                                      > rebuilding.]

                                      Here is one...
                                      http://www.ahs.uwaterloo.ca/~museum/Brueghel/imgmap.html


                                      Capt Elias
                                    • Rosine
                                      ... That s the one! That s the one! Oh, thank you, Captain Elias! I tied my shoelaces _by my ownself_ today and thought the day couldn t get any brighter.
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Sep 4, 2003
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                                        > Here is one...
                                        > http://www.ahs.uwaterloo.ca/~museum/Brueghel/imgmap.html


                                        That's the one! That's the one! Oh, thank you, Captain Elias! I tied my
                                        shoelaces _by my ownself_ today and thought the day couldn't get any
                                        brighter. You've proven me wrong. How wonderful!


                                        Rosine
                                        *Remember, this is da dame in the pickle-barrel back brace. I haven't been
                                        able to bend since January. Ta da! Socks - by meself! Shoes - by meself!
                                        Shoelaces... sh-o-e-laces! By meself! Tomorrow, I might be able to clean the
                                        kitty box. No, wait. Maybe I won't recover _quite_ that fast....
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