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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Question about SCA Cooking for Newcomers

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  • Ariane H
    I m pretty sure you re right - but I didn t have any books on the Caribbean handy, so I looked up the Louisiana one instead, and I was going on the assumption
    Message 1 of 58 , Sep 1, 2003
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      I'm pretty sure you're right - but I didn't have any books on the
      Caribbean handy, so I looked up the Louisiana one instead, and I was
      going on the assumption that the French couldn't have been starting up
      colonies there more than a couple generations earlier or later than they
      were in the Caribbean.


      Vittoria

      ohiongardail@... wrote:

      >
      >IIRC, Creole does not simply refer to French American culture in Louisiana, but to a hybrid Caribbean culture. I think i need to do some quick research.
      >
      >Glassan
      >
      >
      >
    • Sheila McClune
      Pray forgive me for answering a couple of different messages at once, and also if someone else has already posted this information -- I m a few days behind,
      Message 58 of 58 , Sep 12, 2003
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        Pray forgive me for answering a couple of different messages at once,
        and also if someone else has already posted this information -- I'm a
        few days behind, and trying to catch up...

        > From: "Elizabeth Walpole" <ewalpole@...>
        > Subject: Re: Re: Question about SCA Cooking for Newcomers
        >
        > Well potatoes are theoretically possible once the Spanish started colonising
        > South America, but I don't think they were particularly popular until after
        > period.
        <<<

        I've found potato recipes in a couple of the late English sources (post
        1590-ish, more on that below), but there are only a couple, and nothing
        resembling either french fries or mashed potatoes.

        >>>
        > So far as I understand Potatoes were considered dangerous for quite
        > a while because of their resemblance to deadly nightshade.
        <<<

        I wish I had a reference on this ... I once saw a television program
        that showed how potatoes are grown in the Andean villages in South
        America. They told about how the "older" varieties of potato are so
        alkaline that in order to render them edible, the villagers basically
        stomp on them to break them open, then leave them sitting in the fields
        for a year (or at least over the winter) so that they freeze-dry. I
        wish I could remember the name of the program or even what it was really
        about, so I could find some more information on this. I wonder if it's
        possible that these are the sorts of potatoes the Europeans first
        encountered, and nobody told them about the importance of the
        freeze-drying step? It would explain why people might have thought they
        were poisonous, at least at first; then, when they found other varieties
        that didn't have this problem, they were more receptive to using them as
        food.

        Something to dig into in my "spare time". Yeah ....

        >>>
        I've no idea
        > about battered fish, it doesn't feel right to me but I might be wrong.
        <<<<

        Well, I've seen lots and lots of recipes for fritters -- they seem to
        have battered and fried just about everything, including batter. ;) In
        fact, Le Menagier has a recipe that works out to be a lot like fried
        cheese sticks. But I don't remember seeing much in the way of meats or
        fish in the fritter pan.

        >>>
        > Just off the top of my head, I recall that Gerard commented that while
        > potatoes were edible, they were better fodder for beasts than for men.
        > (I've got the facsimile of the 1604 edition of the "Herball.")
        <<<

        Actually, I'm remembering that that quote was about maize ... ah, here
        it is, in the Culinary Gleanings from Gerard's Herball on Cindy
        Renfrow's website (http://members.aol.com/renfrowcm/gerardp1.html):

        "...Turky wheat doth nourish far lesse than either wheat, rie, barley,
        or otes. The bread which is made thereof is meanly white, without bran:
        it is hard and dry as Bisket is, and hath in it no clamminesse at all;
        for which cause it is of hard digestion, and yeeldeth to the body little
        or no nourishment... a more conuenient food for swine than for men."

        Of potatoes, Gerard says,

        Virginian Potatoes -- ""Battata Virginiana, siue Virginianorum, &
        Pappus. Virginian Potatoes.
        The temperature and vertues be referred vnto the common [sweet]
        Potatoes, being likewise a food, as also a meate for pleasure, equall in
        goodnesse and wholesomenesse vnto the same, being either rosted in the
        embers, or boyled and eaten with oyle, vinegar, and pepper, or dressed
        any other way by the hand of some cunning in cookerie."

        Sweet Potatoes -- "Sisarum Peruvianum, siue Batata Hispanorum. Potato's.
        The Potato roots are among the Spaniards, Italians, Indians, and many
        other nations common and ordinarie meate; which no doubt are of mighty
        and nourishing parts... being tosted in the embers they lose much of
        their windinesse, especially being eaten sopped in wine. Of these roots
        may be made conserues no lesse toothsome, wholesome, and dainty than of
        the flesh of Quinces: and likewise those
        comfortable and delicate meats called in shops Morselli, Placentulae,
        and diuers other such like.
        These Roots may serue as a ground or foundation whereon the cunning
        Confectioner or Sugar-Baker may worke and frame many comfortable
        delicate Conserues, and restoratiue sweete meates.
        They are vsed to be eaten rosted in the ashes. Some when they be so
        rosted infuse them and sop them in Wine; and others to giue them the
        greater grace in eating, do boyle them with prunes, and so eate them.
        And likewise others dresse them (being first rosted) with Oyle, Vineger,
        and salt, euerie man according to his owne taste and liking.
        Notwithstanding howsoeuer they bee dressed, they comfort, nourish, and
        strengthen the body, procuring bodily lust, and that with greedinesse."

        Of course, Cindy's using the 1633 edition of Gerard, but I'm remembering
        that the book of extracts I had from the 1597 edition said much the same
        thing about both vegetables. (Unfortunately, said book is buried to
        deeply for me to dig out at the moment.)

        >>>
        > > Well potatoes are theoretically possible once the Spanish started
        > colonising
        > > South America <snip>
        >
        and Eirene said:

        > Yes, they were known, but we can only prove that they were eaten by
        > beings other than peasants, prisoners, or pigs in period if we find a
        > period document that says that they did. There *is* a recipe for
        > potatoes in the just-out-of-period corpus, but scholars believe that
        > it is for sweet potatoes or yams. Other than that, IIRC, Rumpolt
        > (very late German) has a recipe or recipes for potatoes - sweet or
        > white, I don't know. In any case, potatoes are anything but typical
        > of the cuisines of western Europe, and certainly not before 1537.
        <<<

        The closest I could come, scanning the ones I could find online, are
        from John Murrell: A new booke of Cookerie; London Cookerie. London
        1615:

        A Marrow toast.

        MJnce colde parboyld Ueale, and Suit very fine, and sweet Hearbs each by
        themselues, and then mingle them together with Sugar, Nutmeg, Sinamon,
        Rosewater, grated bread, the yolkes of two or three new layd Egges: open
        the minst meat, and couer it with the marrow. Then put your toast into
        the Pipkin with the vppermost of some strong broth: let it boyle with
        large Mace, a Fagot of sweet hearbs, scum them passing cleane, and let
        them boyle almost drye. Then take Potato-rootes boyld, or Chest-nuts,
        Skirrootes, or Almonds, boyled in white Wine, and for want of Wine you
        may take Uergis and Sugar.

        To boyle a Capon.

        TAke strong broth of Marrow-bones, or any other strong broth, put the
        Marrow into a Pipkin with Salt: boyle your Capon in the Pipkin, and
        scumme it cleane, before you be ready to take it off, put in your Salt.
        Take a pinte of white-Wine in a Pipkin, for one Capon, if you haue more,
        you must haue more Wine: halfe a pound of Sugar a quarter of a pound of
        Dates sliced, Potatoes boyled, and blauncht, large Mace, Nutmeg sliced:
        if you want Potatoes take Endiffe, and for want of both, boyle Skirrets
        & blaunch them: boile all together, with a quarter of a pint of Uergis,
        and the yolkes of Egges, straine it and stirre it about, and put it to
        the Capon with the strong broth.

        I thought I remembered that there was one in Hugh Platt, too, and maybe
        one or two others, but that's not all online yet, and I don't have the
        time to go digging it out just now. Sorry.

        1615 *is* post-period, though given the fact that right about that time,
        people (like Hugh Plat) were going around and collecting older recipes
        and publishing them, I'd say that there's at least a possibility that
        these recipes, or variations on them, were used in England prior to 1600
        ... but probably not much prior. Maybe 1590's. If you wanted to serve
        one of the above recipes at an Elizabethan feast, you could make a case
        for it.

        But I agree with Eirene -- they were not typical of European cuisine,
        and especially not before 1550.

        >>>
        > From: "Rosine" <nothingbutadame@...>
        > Subject: Re: Re: Question about SCA Cooking for Newcomers
        >
        > I'm afraid that I'm so wimpy I use potatoes...as a substitute for
        > turnips. I do cook the occassional small batch of whatever it is with
        > turnips in it, but frankly - I hate the taste of them.
        <<<

        That's probably because nobody's ever told you the secret to cooking
        turnips. Here's what you do: Start two pots of water boiling. Toss
        your turnips in one of them and boil for five or ten minutes or so.
        Drain and rinse. Toss them into the other pot. Give them another 5 or
        10. If you're really being fanatical, do it again.

        The purpose of this is to get rid of the nasty-smelling-bitter-tasting
        chemicals, leaving you with yummy turnips. Even a single boiling
        helps. Try it sometime. You might be surprised.

        Arwen
        Barony of Caerthe, Outlands
        (Denver, CO)
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